Wrong flag. Should be Palestinian or Russian
Bold of you to assume I’m a jew. You are just another racist hater and bloodthirsty idiot.
The meme is broadly generalizing Israel as a homogenic society that casually murders children on a regular basis and omits that Israel is in fact a diverse society. By doing so it reproduces the ancient antisemitic trope of ritual child murder and blood libel. Neo-Nazis and other racist antisemites would therefore love this meme. From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable.
Israel is a nation that casually murders children on a regular basis though
That is an antisemitic generalization. The government and military of a nation is only a subgroup of it´s society. How would you like to be held responsible for the actions of your government and military, even if you did not vote for them and don´t agree with what they are doing?
Ok, I’ll correct that to ‘Israel as a nation casually murders children on a regular basis’ to be more accurate then.
Sus af though that you claimed that a meme criticising Israel as a nation for killing kids was an attack against all jews
It’s cute how you’re staying safe in your mind palace and arguing about hypothetical settlers who don’t support what’s going on.
You know what your hypothetical virtuous perpetrators of a genocide can do if they actually feel that way? Fucking leave. They can fucking leave and go back where they came from and give back the homes they stole.
Conflating Israel’s actions with Judaism as a whole is extremely antisemitic in its own right.
Israel’s regime does casually murder children on a regular basis, it is not antisemitic to say that.
If you’re suggesting ignoring the fact, just because “Neo-nazis might like it”, I can’t stand with you.
Conflating Israel’s actions with Judaism as a whole is extremely antisemitic in its own right.
I fully agree with your statement. However, calling out antisemitic propaganda aimed at Israel does not equal doing that imo.
Israel’s regime does casually murder children on a regular basis, it is not antisemitic to say that.
I fully agree with that one too and would be fine with the meme if it would have an IDF flag or a Bibi face instead of the Israel flag.
If you’re suggesting ignoring the fact, just because “Neo-nazis might like it”, I can’t stand with you.
I am not exactly sure what you mean, please elaborate.
From my antifascist perspective, an Apartheid state killing children is what is truly absolutely unacceptable. If diverse sectors of that society are not OK with war, Apartheid and murdering civilians, it’s on them to mobilize to stop that, not on the rest of the world to refrain from criticism just because the human rights violations their state actually commits are similar to delusional bigoted tropes about their religion. Also, criticizing the actions of a State, even a religious one, is not hate speech.
From my antifascist perspective, an Apartheid state killing children is what is truly absolutely unacceptable.
That´s an obvious attempt to derail from topic and a weird thing to compare a meme with but I fully agree with the statement itself.
If diverse sectors of that society are not OK with war, Apartheid and murdering civilians, it’s on them to mobilize to stop that
What are you organizing to stop the crimes of your government? Would you like to be held responsible for the crimes of your government and it´s military, even if you did not vote for them?
not on the rest of the world to refrain from criticism just because the human rights violations their state actually commits are similar to delusional bigoted tropes about their religion.
Of course not but that criticism should be smart and differentiated. If it´s too generalizing, like this one, it can easily come across as antisemitic.
Also, criticizing the actions of a State, even a religious one, is not hate speech.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding? I assumed the national flag represents not just the state of a nation but also all of it´s citizens?
Israel is not Judaism and it’s not an ethnic group by your own admission. The idea that the Jewish people employ dark magic rituals that murder and consume children is antisemitic. The idea that the police and military of Israel, with the public at broad’s supports, kills children in the interest of national security is not.
We can distinguish between the two. You don’t seem to separate them, which is antisemitic.
Israel is not Judaism and it’s not an ethnic group by your own admission. The idea that the Jewish people employ dark magic rituals that murder and consume children is antisemitic.
Sure, that is why I called it out when i saw the meme …
The idea that the police and military of Israel, with the public at broad’s supports, kills children in the interest of national security is not.
Ask ultra-orthodox Israelis about this, you will be surprised.
We can distinguish between the two. You don’t seem to separate them, which is antisemitic.
You just claimed that the majority of Israeli citizens supports child murder, at the same time you are perfectly aware that this majority is Jewish, now who is being antisemitic?
You just claimed that the majority of Israeli citizens supports child murder, at the same time you are perfectly aware that this majority is Jewish, now who is being antisemitic?
They did not claim that the majority of Israeli citizens supports child murder because they are Jewish.
Stop making shit up.
Piles and piles of children with photographic evidence and multiple parties saying it happened: blood libel
40 babies being beheaded according to hearsay from 1 IOF soldier with no one able to verify the existence of the alleged video: totally real and not blood libel; we must exterminate these savages!
This seems like a derailing attempt but you are touching a point that I strongly feel about. How the western governments and media are spinning a narrative of good Israel vs evil Palestinians is sickening me every day. It´s obviously just war time propaganda and not journalism. The western politicians constant repetitions of unlimited solidarity with Israel, while at the same time nobody even mentions solidarity with Palestinians is a huge shame for the west and unmasks all claims of moral superiority. This gets even more ridiculous when you compare the body counts of both sides and see that the losses of the Palestinians are always so much higher. Also, Gaza population is super dense so imo every bomb dropped there by IDF equals a war crime. I could go on like this much longer but I think you can get I don´t have a one dimensional view on the conflict.
Nothing of that justifies posting antisemitic memes that call all citizens of Israel child murderers though. Let´s criticize the ones responsible instead, the right-extremist government that is full of racists, their military which bombs civilians and the ultra-nationalist settler movement.
Not only is solidarity with Palestinian frowned upon, the US’ only Palestinian lawmaker was censured and publicly shamed for advocating for Palestine.
Luckily, the US is the only country not calling it genocide or war crimes.
Unluckily, really solidifies that we’re gonna be the baddies in WW3.
Blood Libel refers to the belief that Judaism incorporates the murder and consumption of (mainly) Christian children. Conflating this idea with what this meme is clearly referring to (what happening in Palestine) reinforces the Zionist propaganda that Zionism (and therefore the actual ethnic cleansing that Zionists are currently doing) is intrinsic to Judaism and should be immune from criticism on religious grounds.
But I suspect you are aware of that and are here in bad faith, so in short: no u
I thought we all could have a mature discussion about the topic but I am starting to see that this community is not interested in anything except circle jerking each other of and that people with a differentiated opinion are hated and accused of bad faith here. Enjoy your circlejerk, I am out of this totalitarian cesspool.
You don’t get to call other people neo-nazis when you’re the one defending a genocidal ethnostate.
Israel is in fact a diverse society
Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
But I´m having so much fun with you guys here?!
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn’t new, this isn’t something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start, calling an apartheid state “diverse” like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it’s pure propaganda
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population, having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn’t change that fact.
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist
the vast majority of jewish people in eastern europe post-war didn’t migrate to either the autonomous oblast the USSR set up or Israel and chose instead to live in the eastern bloc or USSR proper, so they probably count as ‘a lot of antifascists’ that don’t see a reason for Israel’s existence
Israel murdered more children in 30 days than the supposedly genocidal Russian army has in Ukraine,a much larger population base, in 560 days.
Equating Israel with Judaism is antisemitic.
Israel murdered more children in 30 days than the supposedly genocidal Russian army has in ultrathin in 560 days.
Curb your whataboutism, will you?
Equating Israel with Jewishness is antisemitic.
I agree with that statement but in this context it’s just a lazy pseudo argument without actual relevance. Israel was founded by Jews, with the intention to create a country where Jews can be safe and the majority of it’s citizens today are Jews. There is a star of David on that flag for a reason, you know. So while it is wrong to equate Israel with Jewishness, simply because one can be a Jew anywhere and independently of Israel, it is also trivial that Israel is obviously a jewish country and because of that, a meme accusing all of it’s citizens of being child murderers, clearly plays with the old antisemitic trope that accuses Jews of murdering christian children.
That isn’t whataboutism, you fucking imbecilic moron.
I know that your water brained trolling is about trying to appear respectable as you justify murder, but the liquid shit vomiting from your mouth is too fragrant to cover up with definitional arguments.
You just don’t have a response.
Yes, Israel is a country founded by jews, for jews. That doesn’t mean they get to be an ethnostate.
That implies violence against all non-jews that currently live there. That violence has already been demonstrated against the non-jews that were already there, the Palestinians, who have been pushed to the fringes of society and into the open-air prison that is the gaza strip. The flames of antisemitism simply cannot be fought with more flames of islamophobia. All people deserve the same rights and protections regardless of race or religion. That should be what Israel stands for, not “ethnic cleansing but it’s okay this time because the historically persecuted people deserve to have their turn at creating an ethnostate”.
Like, we understand why the Nazis were bad beyond the fact that Jewish people were their main target, do we not? Because that’s how guys like Trump get into power with extreme anti-migrant rhetoric and an anti-democratic party behind them. Fascists can’t sell their ideology on anti-semitism anymore; it backfires, in the same way Lee Atwater pointed out it does for the N word; so they sell it on xenophobia or islamophobia or whichever public enemy (out-group) they can create, and then further shrink their in-group when they gain enough power and/or disenfranchise enough people to do so without much recourse.
Fascism won’t always be as obvious taking up the old flags of Nazis past; and as such it is incredibly harmful to reduce them to any single hallmark, such as the particular vendetta against Judaism that took place in WW2 (not to mention that those particular Nazis prefer there to be a Jewish ethnostate so they have somewhere to expel jews in pursuit of their own ethostates); it will take influence from and adapt to the blind spots of the culture where it spawns from.
Dying on the hill that ANY criticism of the actions taken by Israel: The State is inherently anti-semitic full stop is an intentionally false argument used to excuse the actions of said state - usually by other fascists who wish to emulate their tiered citizenship/civil rights system for Palestinians where they live for whichever group they don’t like.
Dying on the hill that ANY criticism of the actions taken by Israel: The State is inherently anti-semitic
I never did that, in fact I always get in a fight with people who do that.However, the flag represents all citizens of Israel, not just the government. Learn to think more differentiated …
It’s exactly what you’re doing. I explicitly said “Israel: The State” and you’re STILL arguing that I’m being antisemitic.
GTFOH with that shit and go defend genocide somewhere else ya dingus.
Conflating Judaism and Zionism is antisemitism.
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Zionism originated from Christianity, has nothing to do with Judaism
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A lot of Judaism is flat out incompatible with Zionism
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The Nazis were huge supporters of Zionism
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Palestinians are semites too
You are falling for fascist propaganda.
Conflating Judaism and Zionism is antisemitism.
Of course it is and I would never said otherwise.
Zionism originated from Christianity, has nothing to do with Judaism
Really? I was under the impression that Herzl was jewish, not christian but correct me if I am wrong.
A lot of Judaism is flat out incompatible with Zionism
But I know that Jews are not allowed to kill and steal (occupation is theft of land) by their own rules, the ultra-orthodox are particularly vocal about it.
The Nazis were huge supporters of Zionism
Sure but obviously for all the wrong reasons
Palestinians are semites too
Obviously, this is getting boring, tell me something I don know yawns
You are falling for fascist propaganda.
I am explicitly not taking sides in the conflict. I have solidarity for the civilian victims on both sides and criticize the atrocities commited by the IDF just as the atrocities commited by Hamas. Now I am curious, please elaborate how that equals falling for any propaganda.
shut up when people these days cry boohoo antisemitism about Israel’s actions i give no fucks
Chapeau! Thank you for this eloquent contribution, which has enriched the discussion immensely!
Nothing you’ve said has been more worthwhile than a fart in an elevator.
Maturity is wasted on contrarian sea lions, and they don’t even deserve the attempt.
