Bernie: Here’s a bill that will help literally everyone. People waste less of their lives at work, and productivity goes up massively for the corporate overlords. There is no downside here for anyone.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
They’ve been telling him that since he was being arrested for protesting for civil rights and Joe Biden was fighting against school busing…
Their stupid bullshit hasn’t stopped him yet
Bernie is still the only politician I have donated to but to be fair to Biden, bussing was met with violent protests and even black activists criticized it for weakening black communities. There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
That’s not a fact, it’s an opinion.
One that Biden hasn’t been able to rationalize to Dem voters for decades.
If you want to try, give it a shot. I legitimately believe you might do a better job at it than Biden.
But you’re gonna have to do more than say there was “good reasons” besides people of Bidens age being completely ignorant of psychology.
School busing sped up integration by decades, and when kids grow up in multiracial environments it changes their ingroup determination to not just be “people who look like me”.
We can only change that at a very young age, but it sticks with you for life. Even with busing, the effects were decades away.
If we didn’t have busing, generations of people would have suffered.
So if you and Biden want to argue with that, you’re going to have to put in a lot of effort to throw the last 30 years of psychology
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Don’t listen to them, when they tell you that. As far as you know, might even be an astroturfer, trying to kill this in the crib.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that you want this bill to become law.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
Slow it down there Thanos, just because you can’t personally see a solution to our current predicament doesn’t mean that genocide is the solution. Do you honestly believe that would fix things? Are you a comic book villain?
You decrie brainwashing by the media and assume that you are unaffected, but you are clearly and dangerously mislead into losing all hope for a better world. The latest shift in climate disinformation is away from denialism and towards doomerism, and you seem to have fallen for it hard.
It is not too late. There are attainable solutions. Political change is possible, perhaps even inevitable. There will be consequences for what has already been done, but we can survive them and we will. What might not survive are the institutions that got us to this point, but we can build a better world in their absence. Don’t lose hope, that’s what the oligarchs want.
I know it’s hard to sympathize with those who refused to see reason and allowed the powers that be to bring us to the point of crisis, but it’s important to remember that they too are victims.
Unfortunately that’s a fairly naive take that fails to consider how most people work in the US- hourly employees would be fucked by this.
Retail, service, anyone whose not already working 9-5 office jobs; the reality is that they won’t loose pay, but they will loose hours. And you can bet your ass that companies won’t pay more to make up for it.
they lose hours but the hourly pay goes up, just like everybody else, no? I haven’t read the bill but I would be surprised if that’s not in there.
Companies already offer part time retail positions, and they are shitty about it. 39.5 hours a week to avoid the full time line.
So in this 32h future they’d just offer 31 hour positions at a lower rate and still yank people around
Edit: I was off on values. Commenter below pointed out 30 is the mark
First off, it needs to be noted that the only mechanism to do that on so large a scale is to increase the minimum wage.
Which is how they did it in ‘38 when the work week went to 44, and in ‘40 when it when to what it is today.
The problem is that company are absolutely going to pass that off to customers (aka, the workers… ultimately.) and so really all you’ve done, effectively, is put far more people onto minimum wage.
Anyone who was above that mimimim? Gets the shaft.
And people who now are on minimum? Working two jobs to pay for everything (like most people in the bottom quarter are already doing anyhow,) so they don’t really see reduced hours anyway.
It’s well meaning and it’d be nice, but it needs to be done differently. Unions are strong now. Stronger than they have been since I’ve been working. Join a union. Make the change yourself; eventually it’ll get normalized without the above problems. (Also, better wages, healthcare, workplace safety and everything else Unions get you.)(don’t tell my boss’s boss that. He’s still buthurt from negotiating a new contract.)
From the article…
The Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act would also protect workers’ pay and benefits to ensure there’s no loss in pay, according to a press release.
Says nothing about loss in hours.
Remember, when you’re paid hourly, you can lose hours and not lose pay.
Unless the employment contract already has guaranteed hours.
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted. How would the government mandate a pay raise across the board? The government only has the federal minimum wage lever to play with. Somehow the law would have to say: all hourly workers must be paid 25% more. Would companies just increase prices by 25%?
Now, I’m all for reducing the work week to 32 hours. I’m tired of spending most of the week working and only having to 2 free days (of which one is usually spent doing home chores). But I’m genuinely curious about how this would be implemented without causing massive inflation.
Raising the minimum wage to account for inflation would give a vast number of people a major raise.
We need this so fucking bad. As a species, not just America or the wealthy nations only. Everyone.
And this should just be a transitionary period down to a 24 or less hour work week. Fuck slaving away at shit jobs just to make billionaires.
We need this so fucking bad.
Of course we do, so do the corporations, though they don’t realize it. With happier workers you get more profits.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Futurama, but you’re going to have to elaborate on this reply, and how it relates to my comment about contacting your house representative.
“I don’t miss twice Campers.”
I loved that line.
Good idea. I have one little suggestion. Start the conversation with “Fuck Milton Friedman, and fuck your shares.”
When COVID shut down my state (we were considered essential) we got furloughed one day a week. I was getting paid less so I was concerned, but it was honestly the best thing to happen to me. We started a garden, I got so much more done. I was healthier and happier.
Going back to 5 days a week, and longer commute (no more COVID clear freeways), I can absolutely feel my life shortening. I’ve gained a ton of weight, and increased stress significantly.
Yea, slaving away should be purely optional. If you love your job or you love money or you want to keep yourself distracted AND make money at the same time, by all means, knock yourself out and work 60 hour weeks.
It’s a failure of the system if people have to work full time to scrape by with the very bare necessities and live in poverty, with all the nasties that come with it. America coined the term “working poor” (obligatory meme so we’re on the same page)
Full Employment and Zero Protests go hand-in-hand.
As soon as unemployment figures start climbing (2008, 2014, 2016, COVID-2020) people hit the streets and cops start working a lot of extra overtime.
Imagine if people had a whole third weekend day to themselves. Imagine what they could spend their time doing that wasn’t entirely predicated on enriching their bosses?
Imagine citizens actually learning how politics work and taking civic responsibilities for their own interests, instead of being chained to a job for every waking moment, and so zombified they don’t even know what day of the week it is.
Happy people with stake in their own community. What a nightmare for the ownership class!
America coined the term “working poor” (obligatory meme so we’re on the same page)
It’s also very American to just fucking ignore most of the world while saying things like that.
Looking at the productivity gains, vs income gains since 1970, I would say that we need an 8 hour work week. We are producing well over 7 times as much stuff and economic value as we were in 1970
The amount of shit that companies produce and then just throw away because it’s cheaper than donating, is staggering. There was some report a while back about Amazon doing this. Truckloads of stuff that doesn’t sell, brand new, straight to the landfill. Stuff that could be donated to public schools or whatever. Fucking gross.
Not to mention all the food we produce, then waste.
Nonono don’t do it!!
Just look how it went in Germany, they went from 40 to 35 and then last year they overtook Japan as the 3rd largest economy in the world.
But if they had kept 40 hour work week, they might have done that a year earlier.
I tell you 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
/s
Inb4 Fox News later today
I’ll tell you hwat. 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
- Economist who chose to remain anonymous due to fear of liberal cancel culture.
I am in Germany, how do I get a 35 hour work week without working part time? Every contact I’ve ever had has said 40 hours, not including breaks, with an expectation of overtime going up to 50 hours (legal maximum) unpaid.
OK now I’m confused, because I was pretty sure Germany introduced 35 hour work week already in the 90’s, just like Denmark reduced to 37.5 hours.
Here the 37.5 is actually the norm for full time work. I thought it was 35 in Germany, but I can’t even find anything on the introduction of 35 hours in the 90’s ???
But apparently the AVERAGE which is a completely different measure, is 34.2 in 2020.
https://blog.emerald-technology.com/working-hours-germany
34.2 hours as of 2020
I apologize if I misrepresented the situation in Germany.
I agree with the sentiment. But the case with Germany and Japan wasn’t so much Germany overtaking but rather Japan sloping down (Japan’s strict working hours/culture probably played a part in this though).
Isn’t Germany the country where they’re burning wood to keep warm in the winter?
Absolutely, wood pellets and stoker furnaces are brilliant, as they work very well, and is a near CO2 neutral source of heat.
We do that too here in Denmark 7th richest country in the world, and I bet they also do in Norway and Switzerland, the 2nd and 3rd richest countries in the world.
We have both stoker furnace for central heating and a windowed stove in the living room for traditional firewood. The brilliance with the stove is that it has higher energy utilization than any other heat source. And it creates hygge in the living room in the long cold winter evenings.
I don’t see a path forward that doesn’t start with the US government making the change first. They are one of the only employers that don’t have market competition.
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
It’s wild to me how internally the government offers the kind of benefits politicians should’ve pushed into law a long time ago. It really is “for Me, not for Thee”.
Source: worked in one of those departments
I work in the Federal Government, and this isn’t true. You have alternative work schedules (4/10s, 5/4/9, maxiflex, etc.) but you’re still going to work 80 hours unless you take leave. You gain annual leave every pay period and the amount is dependent on how long your federal service has been. But when you start (1-3 years) you only get 4 hours per pay period.
Maybe you’re seeing people who have long federal service (15 years) that gain 8 hours/pay period use their leave. That’s their choice but they’re still working 40 hours on paper regardless.
Giving a benefit to government workers only requires a president to write an executive order.
Making a benefit into a law that affects all workers requires the House, Senate, President, and SCOTUS to all get on board.
Definitely true, but you never hear conservatives complaining about all the paid leave they get or the healthcare benefits they enjoy.
If some conservative president really wanted to walk the talk, they’d axe all those benefits for everyone.
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
Nope.
Source: worked in one of those departments
If you did, you had no idea what was going on.
An agency can’t just “give” someone twice the leave accrual as the max. People were probably doing 4 days a week, 10 hours a day.
And you just didn’t understand
As a European libertarian, americans and people in some far eastern countries work at their jobs way too much. It’s harmful in every kind of way imaginable. I don’t understand why it’s done.
I get that some profession may benefit from it, but having standard office personnel sit at their desk 12 hours every day? What the fuck. I refuse to believe this improves company profits in 90% of the companies.
I’m self employed.
There’s an infinite amount of work for me to do, but like most professions its intellectually, emotionally and mentally taxing.
Honestly, I can’t do much more than 4 hours of real actual work per day.
Same here. I did a complete carreer change from STEM (robotics engineering) into visual arts, and I’m happier than ever, but the intense mental work required means I do ~4 hours of actual developed work a day, then spend the next 4-6 hours doing the art equivalent of menial work (fixing the quality of small lines, slightly tweaking colours etc)
Hey that’s interesting! I have a degree in computer science and work as a software developer but also a masters in visual arts (photography). I never managed to break free from my developer gig, because of the financial stability it provides, but I already burned out, recovered and feel it’s an endless cycle. Like you, doing art made me so happy and it bothers me every day I can’t seem to get my life turned around in that direction.
Do you have any tips in that regard? How did you get started? Did you transition softly or just quit your job there and then? And what then? Did you have network? Can you live off your art?
I have so many questions, please point this fellow STEM in the right direction to break free :)
Im working 40, and in recent memory went thru long stretches of 60+, and also 0, when i was privileged enough to take a bit of extra time between jobs.
In my “free” time, i work on the art my heart wont let me not make. When working 40, i can manage an extra 10 hrs (maybe) on a good week doing the shit i actually feel im supposed to do. When i worked 65, i hardly did shit some weeks, other weeks id feel proud of 3 hrs. Youd think i could then manage 60, or 50, or at least 40 when unemployed then, right?
Lol, try 25 as a stretch goal. When u actually believe in ur work and want to give problems the time they deserve and the details the attention they need, you find that you get burned out pretty damn fast. Any more and the effort slips.
Granted, im not counting breaks in that number. If i work 4 hrs one day, i might do it in some 45 minute chunks, 1 ninety minute chunk, with numerous 15 minute breaks and 1 lasting between 90-120.
I get that ymmv, but im typically extolled (read: exploited) as a very hard worker in all my jobs, and we’re talking about the difference between working on the things that my soul demands versus what is typically rote, menial BS.
It’s been repeatedly shown to decrease company profits. As people work longer hours they amount of stuff they get done declines rapidly as they get tired. Their error rate also dramatically increases. This causes a rapid decline in overall productivity.
The issue is people believe that working longer hours is more productive in those cultures. Sadly people usually make decisions based upon unfounded beliefs not provable facts.
What the fuck. I refuse to believe this improves company profits in 90% of the companies.
It doesn’t. Hundreds of industry studies have been done, and they all point to the same conclusion. 40 hours of work is the absolute maximum you can squeeze out of a worker before you start to see productivity and quality take a sharp nosedive. Doesn’t matter if you’re a factory worker or an office drone, fatigue will set in and give increasingly diminished returns for every hour over that. 40 hour work weeks only became the standard across the United States because of Henry Ford actually listening to the people doing these studies.
I think part of the reason we haven’t shifted more towards a more balanced 30 hour work week despite the absolutely massive increase in productivity thanks to computerization and automation is because management positions attract individuals who strongly believe that more effort = more results, and that probably rings true for managerial positions where the most alpha-minded ones who work extra hard above and beyond the job’s expectations are the ones to typically get the promotions and thus become industry leaders themselves in time.
Consider how much time people spend on Facebook or TikTok or whatever while on the job. Consider how much time is spent “looking busy” when in reality you might just be dragging out the task you are on so that you are not assigned more busywork. This is all a product of people having jobs that demand they be present and paid for 40 hours worth of labor, but a great deal of it is “performative labor” where they are not actually producing, but can’t afford to clock out early because wages are based on how long you are at work, and rarely commission based, so there’s no incentive to produce more for the same pay so long as you are meeting expectations/quotas.
A coworker “above me” (we don’t have titles at this job so we can’t determine our value) just said the other day: “I don’t get this generation. Imagine calling out because you don’t feel well in my time? You went to work because you needed it, you cough and people know to stay the fuck away from you. If you called out you would just get fired and the job would keep chugging.”
That’s viewed as a GOOD place to work at by some fucking insane people… America is the land of the blind slave.
I don’t understand why it’s done.
Useful idiots proud to work for their overlords.
or y’know people trying to support and feed themselves and/or their families and hoping to somehow scrounge up enough savings to be able to lose it all for medical reasons or on a house
We’re discussing why they choose to structure society that way.
These arguments have been going on for generations, and Americans tend to be useful idiots proud to work for their overlords.
