“We will not stop calling out and fighting back against extremist, so-called leaders who try to prevent our children from learning our true and full history,” the vice president said in Florida.
“They attempt to legitimize these unnecessary debates with a proposal that most recently came in of a politically motivated roundtable,” Harris said in her afternoon speech at the 20th Women’s Missionary Society of the African Methodist Episcopal Church Quadrennial Convention in Orlando. “Well, I’m here in Florida, and I will tell you there is no roundtable, no lecture, no invitation we will accept to debate an undeniable fact. There were no redeeming qualities of slavery.”
Makes sense to me.
Honestly debating these people is completely pointless and should be seen as such. They’re not going to argue in good faith and they will just continue to create statements that are inarguable due to confounded bullshit. Word salad after preposterous nonsense.
That’s exactly what they would do.
“Ok KAMALA are you really going to say that learning a new skill isn’t beneficial? Are you going to lie to the Great Patriots™©® of America and say that being given housing and food in exchange for labor is no beneficial? Are you actually saying that being exposed to our Great Christian Culture™©® is not beneficial!? Well now the True Patriots™©® can see you for what you are, a liar!”
Every mouth breather, slobbenly, Trump sucker would be sent to the ICU for a heart attack caused by sheer bliss from the massive “win” they just had…
It’s so gross…
I respectfully disagree, I think something like this is worth a debate. That is really the only venue that you would switch someone’s mind who is in the middle of the road for who to vote for in 2024 in the US. Everything with these politicians is said from a safe zone in an echo chamber of their respective parties, they need to be to talking directly to each other and hash it out in front of everyone.
No one is “middle of the road” on slavery. Either you’re completely and entirely against it, or you’re a piece of shit.
I disagree: anybody that is “in the middle of road” and is holding that “slaves benefited from slavery” is anything other than racist drivel — is lying to you. They are not “in the middle of the road”; instead they are racist assholes that hoping for, at best, an excuse and more likely are just enjoying wasting your time.
These debates aren’t about what’s said but about who “wins” and the person who “won” is dependent on what media outlet is covering it. If you’re so middle of the road that you don’t know who to pick, you’re going to watch a debate?
FYI I upvoted you.
I get your intended idea, but in this case, what is there to debate about slavery = bad?
Anyone “on the fence” about that is just a bit too far gone for common sense, let alone words/a debate to reach.
I’m a lefty that does appreciate debate in certain contexts, which seems to be somewhat unpopular nowadays. There would be no benefit in having a debate here except maybe in a very, very, very, very, very, very contextual, academic forum of a thought experiment (and I’m highly skeptical of even that, as you would have to presuppose some truly monstrous things).
Desantis is not going to be in that forum. He’s going to platform KKK rhetoric used as a justification for slavery for nearly a century after its abolition. His staffers are quite literally Nazis. The ethics of chattel slavery are very clear cut, similarly to how the ethics of sexual abuse are clear cut: for all but an infinitesimal section of people, the only people advocating for them are monstrous, disgusting bigots.
There’s nothing to debate.
And when one party is playing by no rules, there’s no discussion.
Is anyone really undecided about this topic, still?
If so there are far better ways to reach them than pretending both viewpoints are legitimate. You really have to get to the crux of the issue and people have to really grok what life is like if you’re not white, cis, het, etc.
Can we step back for a second and just soak up the fact that it’s 2023 and some presidential candidates still want to debate the benefits of owning humans?
I know MLK Jr said
The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice
But man, that arc seems so long that a flat earther would deny there’s a curve at all.
A white racist piece of shit wants to debate the vice president who is a black woman. I sure thought we had made progress over the last 50 years, but of course we haven’t.
It’s depressing as shit. I’m with you on previously thinking that we were making progress.
I detest that this is still happening, and I loathe the people who are still doing it. It might be judgemental, but at least I judge people based on their actions against others instead of what they look like.
Never give a fascist a platform.
The only correct response, you don’t bargain with terrorists. Her turning up and debating it legitimises it like it’s an actual educational option and not lies.
pretty sure you cant be a terrorist and a governor at the same time. is this like calling people nazi’s because you disagree with them?
“Terrorist: a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.”
Do you think a governor is above the law? Or can’t do anything illegal? Or that they can’t intimidate?
Please explain which part he isn’t able to do. I’m not seeing it.
You left out ‘mandated the teaching to children of the ‘good’ elements of slavery.’
Yes, its the exact same shit. “Oh no, we can’t have field trips to strip clubs anymore, thats terrorism!”
And now the clowns will say: “See! They’re scared!” And jerk each other off while watching Trump’s 2016 inaugural speech.
The nature of bad faith is that there is no right answer.
Any turn of events somehow bolsters their claim, because their worldview is unfalsifiable nonsense. It is not even wrong.
Would there be a way, though, to actually debate the bad faith holders and win? By exposing their bad faith point for point and making them look so bad in public that they automatically lose?
Nope. The mere fact that they are intentionally arguing in bad faith is proof of that. Their entire reason for making the offer to “discuss” is to trap you in one of their “gotcha” moments, so they can use it to prove their claim. They will never acknowledge their mistakes and will simply talk in circles. Typical grifter/troll approach to politics.
I like the anlaogy that debating with a MAGoo is like playing chess with a pigeon. All they’ll do is shit all over the table and then strut around like they won.
The Gish Gallop is an actual technique the Right loves to use. Just pour out an endless stream of lies, half lies, utter fantasies, and nonsense in order to force the opposition to spend time refuting stuff.
Theoretically, that’s what structured debate and courtroom practice is for. But these days I sincerely doubt anyone, much less a politician, would agree to such a thing, nor would it be easily “television worthy”
Very unlikely. I think I see where you’re headed.
You might want to check out The Alt Right Playbook video series as it kind of scratches that itch.
Bad faith actors have many tricks up their sleeves. For example, they’ll gish gallop you-- overwhelming you with too many claims to counter. And before you finish discussing one claim they’ll throw a load more at you.
Also their concept of winning is very different from those of a good faith debater.
I think the real answer is to discuss in good faith, in person, with people you know and share mutual respect. Because when people know what the right wing is about and know what the dog whistles are, then they see right through the pathetic tactics of the right wing extremists.
In practice no. They’ll just keep bringing out more and more points that are increasingly ridiculous, then they’ll point at the time a Scientist got flustered and had no answer when asked about whatever grift it is this time. But the question is something like “If the Earth is round why haven’t we all fallen off yet?” And there’s no good answer to that.
Good. There no “debating” with these fascists. They are only looking to bang the table to legitimize their fucked up fantasies.
This is the same reason we don’t “debate” benefits and harms of genocide. DeSpicable.