timemachineyeah
drives me up a wall living in a very very red district, like “no democrat is ever going to win any local election, let alone a real leftist” district, like “our school board members ran on who was the most anti-mask” red, like “I pass white supremacist signs on the way to buy weed” red
and being in the local leftist community and the guy who runs the anarchist book club and the lady who helps keep the warming shelters open and the people who marched on city hall when a local business was getting death threats for having a drag show are all members of a discord and we get on this discord and have frank discussions about how best to vote
the people who do the protests and the mutual aid and all the real work
going “okay, they’re both fascists, but this one lacks ambition and seems happy to just glide in the position” or “they both suck, but this one can be reasoned with if you frame it patriotically enough” like we don’t even have a democrat to vote for. we know what a vote is. we know what we hope accomplish with it. we know what it can do, and we know what it can’t.
and going from those discussions to here where people think that your vote is some kind of fucking??? enabling maneuver??? as if someone isn’t going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???
we didn’t build this system, we just live in it. we’re just trying to survive. a vote isn’t a statement of your values, it’s not an endorsement, it’s not a marriage contract, it’s a strategic play you make to keep alive.
the biggest mistake I see leftists making is overestimating their own popularity. “well but everyone would be leftist if they just-” no, stop, 1) you can’t possibly know that 2) everyone will not just
But this solution doesnt kill any billionaires, install linux, implement communism or defund the police! It accomplishes nothing!
I heard that when you install Linux for the first time, a billionaire dies. The only way to stop this is for a right-winger to clap three times and say “I believe in the free market”
Goddam you sound so insufferable. You love your ineffective, status-quo, compromise-with-naked-fascists, liberal Democrats, and you want me to love them too. They don’t fucking represent me or my values. If I vote for them, my concerns are ignored until the next campaign when I’m told my concerns are unrealistic fantasies and that while there is certainly no hope of improving things, they can get worse more slowly than with the Republicans.
Democrats are a failure as a party in opposition to conservatism (or even fascism!). Why is it so much to expect for party leaders to show some fucking leadership? Do politics. Have a vision and do more than pretend to fight for it. Make room in the party for the left if you want our votes.
You do realize that the previous commenter was joking right?
At the end of the day, people have no option but to vote for the lesser of two evils, hense why people need to “Do politics” and create better parties or infiltrate existing ones and improve them from the inside. For those who can’t do that, voting to minimize harm is the best many can do. By not voting, you choose to let the status quo remain the same or worse, regress.
Why? I don’t live in an undemocratic country with only 2 parties.
Why should I need to read it?
why are you commenting if you self admittedly don’t care to read the post or understand its context. what ur doing is tantamount to trolling and super annoying.
You only hear this argument pop up when they’re admitting their candidate is shit but it’s the only choice you have besides the other guy.
THIS ISNT A REAL CHOICE AND WE NEED TO STOP PRETENDING IT IS. This is literally how the system maintains it’s 2 party nature.
Yes, you should vote. And vote for who you actually believe in and who you think will actually make a difference, not just the “safe bet”. It’s a prisoners dilemma and we’re all too afraid to make the right move.
Oh I read it. It’s a load of crap. “Leftists” are part of the broken system too. US “liberals” are still conservatives in most other nations.
Voting “just to survive” is voting to keep the system intact. But keep arguing how you’re not part of the problem while voting for the current ruling class that keeps it entrenched.
You can say whatever you want. Doesnt make it true. And requoting it thinking that’s sufficient to change someone’s mind shows how out of touch you are with discourse as well. Just keep shouting the same thing over and over and eventually it’ll be true. Sound familiar?
Feels like there’s some sort of a spiritual element at play too. One option might be better irl, but it isn’t worth it if you think choosing either will get your soul damned (in a religious, social or self respect sense)
That’s part of my problem. I’m a moral absolutist about a lot of things, which is a luxury. I don’t currently have that luxury, but that knowledge doesn’t change my morals.
The other part is the game theory aspect, in that the further right a candidate you accept, the further right the next democrat will be. The OP in this is trying to survive, not to change the system.
in that the further right a candidate you accept, the further right the next democrat will be
This too. Seen people that think there’s literally no difference between conservatives and liberals so it’ll be the same either way. I can’t fathom how you can be so devoid of nuance so it feels like what they really want deep down is to accelerate.
Also I like that oop is specifically talking about nuance between two repubs. People seem to equate ‘better’ with ‘good’ so they’ll come up with reasoning like ‘liberals are not better they will just let conservatives do whatever they want’. That’s still better than more conservatives that help conservatives do what they want. And between conservatives there can still be a distinction.
it feels like what they really want deep down is to accelerate.
It doesn’t just feel that way, it is that way for a lot of people because they believe that they’ll be the vanguard of a glorious rising utopia, when they’re statistically more likely to be a meat crayon marking up the hood of some chud’s Jeep when they’re out protesting
The OP in this is trying to survive, not to change the system.
says who? genuinely, what leads you to believe that? what part of reducing harm in the immediate future also precludes one from working for systemic change?
i commented this elsewhere but it bears repeating: why are we alergic to doing both?
I believe they meant to phrase it as:
The OP in this is saying to vote strategically is to survive, which you have to do to change the system.
At least that’s what I got from the context.
We didn’t build this system, we just live in it. We’re just trying to survive.
Obviously both need to happen, because you can’t change the system if you’re dead. I don’t live in a situation like the OP though, so we’re going to have different voting priorities.
This is why voting isn’t an option. What’s needed is violence and force, these people can’t be reasoned with or expected to take the rational option.
You’ve convinced me, let’s go talk with the Nazis who are out to literally kill people for the simple act of existence.
If we just tolerate intolerance a little bit more surely that will fix the decades of decline!
The sooner you people realise this is a war for survival the sooner something can be done to protect the victims.
This kind of take isn’t “necessarily wrong”, i.e. we have never seen fascism beaten by peaceful means and all, but talking about it openly on someone’s platform is a bad move for several reasons. Put up and shut up, is my advice. Get with your local antifa group, or start one with guidance from one you trust. Keep your mouth shut, protect yourself and others for real.
Talking about it is the first step of getting people involved in it.
This isn’t fight club.
The diffrence is commenting violence rhetoric isn’t organising. I want to hear people saying “this is where you can reach me, this is what I’m about, let’s talk about what to do”
but we need to get more people on board, which means advocating for violence in public places. a tiny fraction of people in a super secret space is a recipe for getting charged as conspirators and co-conspirators. we need people across the entire fucking planet rattling their chains in unison. we need a movement that’s too big to be jailed.
We’re staring down the barrel of over a century of sly upward wealth transfer and increasing state power at the cusp of a fully automated boring dystopia and a general collapse of biodiversity. If the whole world was going to mobilise as an insurgency like you’re describing, it would have happened by now.
It’s not “too late”, but it’s not early. Shit has to start happening.
my opponents doing political violence
Cringe and bad.
Me doing political violence
Based ang good.
Absolutely not unhinged god complex thinking, I’m sure you’re not equally as authoritarian as the people you despise.
Nazis killing people, bad.
Stopping Nazis killing people, bad.
We get it you tolerate intolerance.
I tolerate intolerance, I don’t tolerate violence, it’s very simple.
The same tolerance I afford you, openly advocating violence in an open forum, i afford nazis.
You should be happy that this tolerance is in place, since you benefit from it.
The paradox of intolerance you are so daftly hinting at explicitly draws the line at circumventing debate and resorting to violence and intimidation.
That is the intolerance that shall not be tolerated, but since you never actually read the text and are ““educated”” through memes you wouldn’t know that, because of that idiotic fucking comic you knuckledraggers love reposting to bolster your off-brand “can’t be a fascist if I’m antifa” bullshit.
are we allergic to doing both or something
the post clearly outlines voting as the last minute harm reduction option after all other avenues have been exhausted. do (violent perhaps) praxis and organizing, yea, but why tf would you throw away your option to vote when things haven’t changed yet and you have the opportunity to do 0.01% good for your neighbor?
Left isn’t an ism. Left isn’t an ideology. Americans are fucking stupid. Read a book.
as if someone isn’t going to end up in that seat regardless of what you do???
Lol. Lmao even.
You sent my brain in circles here for a minute. Dude definitely means, “skip the vote and some jackass is gonna end up getting elected anyway and you will have had no say over who it was. When that person has folks seigin’ and heilin’ at the library you’ll wish it had been the other guy.”
That’s for sure what he meant, but that sentence was just too primed to not cherry pick it and giggle a bit.
People can’t possibly be that stupid that they don’t realize this, right? …Right?