More efficient manufacturing, falling battery costs and intense competition are lowering sticker prices for battery-powered models to within striking distance of gasoline cars.
Archive link: https://archive.ph/5QorR
Recently, Mr. Lawrence said, customers have been snapping up used Teslas for a little over $20,000, after applying a $4,000 federal tax credit.
Oh, so you mean used electric cars.
Carmakers including Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, have announced plans for electric vehicles that would sell new for as little as $25,000.
Oh, so you mean not yet, but maybe affordable soon.
For fuck’s sake…
New cars have always been expensive and out of reach for most, which is why the average new car buyer is well into their 50s.
I don’t see how people can logically make an argument about the necessity of switching to EVs for the environment while also demanding that everyone gets a brand new car. Scrapping a bunch of perfectly good cars to build new ones is not going to help out our climate issue.
I’m not seeing “cash for clunkers” types of arguments here - I’ve always seen EV adoption as more about market share of new cars rather than share of the entire fleet.
Of course the former leads to the latter, eventually.
I read that the issue with used EV’s is that you eventually need to replace the battery pack which can sometimes cost you as much as the car.
Edit: Seems I was misinformed. Glad to hear that replacing EV batteries is not much of a concern.
I mean, you eventually need to replace the motor in an ICE car, but most people won’t… they’ll buy another vehicle instead. Most EVs lose a minimal amount of range over time… around 10% over 200k miles. Battery replacements are expensive, but not much more than replacing an engine on an ICE vehicle, unless you do all the labor yourself, and no one should be kidding themselves into believing they will actually replace a battery before they’d replace the vehicle… much like a car whose engine shits the bed. And the amount of savings you have in fuel and maintenance offsets the difference significantly, especially if you get to the 200k mark without trading up for a newer vehicle. Not to mention that there are Teslas on the road with over a million miles on them. You may not be as lucky, but 500k without replacing batteries is not uncommon.
I’ve driven a used Tesla for the last 4 years and have 110k miles on it. It’s still humming like the day it came off the line. It’s quieter, faster, has more torque and power, and I get more compliments on it than I ever did on the ford trucks, vw coupes, or Buick sedans I ever drove. I’ve only replaced tires, windshield wipers, wiper fluid, and the 12v battery and haven’t had any maintenance issues. I drive a lot, all over the country, and save around $2k a year in fuel costs compared to when I drove a Buick. I travel all around the country and have few problems finding charging stations (mostly when way off the grid… like Great Basin national park off-the-grid… but still found a charger) and have never been stranded or ran out of mileage on a given drive. A few pigtails and I can charge at any RV park or campground nationwide.
There is far too much misinformation about EVs and concerns with range or charging infrastructure or whatever the oil companies want you to be afraid of, and the savings in fuel costs outweigh any inconveniences I’ve experienced 10 times over.
Take the leap and you’ll never look back. I’ll never buy another ICE vehicle again. It feels like throwing money away.
I get that Elon is a bipolar asshole at times, but the mission to provide the infrastructure for a more sustainable future is what we need and the user experience is far better than reported.
The idea that replacing an EV battery costs as much as the car itself is total rubbish. Sure, batteries aren’t cheap, but they’re not going to bankrupt you. Modern EV batteries last a long time, often more than a decade, and are covered by solid warranties. Plus, battery prices are dropping fast as technology gets better. Scaremongering about battery costs is just plain wrong and stops people from going green, which is the last thing we need
If it’s even possible. I’ve personally swapped the main battery pack on a Gen 1 Prius. Not easy, but more tedious than technical. Lifting the assembled unit was a hell of a chore but a coulple strapping dudes managed it. Reconditioned cells are available in a lot of places. I’ve had a Nissan Leaf and would get another one, but even finding a battery, let alone any info on swapping it was pretty much impossible.
Why don’t we stop subsidizing fossil fuel companies to the tune of $1Trillion Anually, and instead put all of that money towards subsidizing purchases and further R&D of electric vehicles? Oil and Gas corporations could enjoy the competition of the free market, and we the people could get access to new EVs for under $10k out of pocket - it would be a win-win!
Like 16 years ago you could buy a brand new chevy aveo with an msrp of $10,300.
Small econoboxes used to be cheap and affordable.
Regardless of where you fall on EVs or new car pricing, the Aveo was hot garbage and there’s a reason why they only cost $10k. This is the same reason why you don’t see any of them on the road anymore.
demanding that everyone gets a brand new car
That’s ridiculous. Who’s demanding that?
We need to push new EVs, because there are not enough used ones. What do you think a used car starts as? Be happy every time someone buys a new EV, because there’s another used one in 3+ years.
I got a new EV, because I needed a vehicle, and my pattern is to buy new and drive into the ground
And of course Tesla’s are cheap used, they are an absolute train-wreck in the quality control department.
You’re not wrong, but in fairness the headline says EVs are becoming affordable, not that they are affordable.
You’re not wrong, but in fairness the headline says EVs are becoming affordable, not that they are affordable.
he’s right; brand new ev’s go for about $10k outside the unites states; they’re already affordable but big tariffs are being employed to discourage buying them.
curiously, even the 100% american tariff still makes these ev’s more affordable than anything in that article and i’m wondering what’s going to happen once they start building them in mexico (ie nafta).
They don’t in Australia they’re still 50k min. We give massive subsidies to fossil fuel companies too
Oh, so you mean not yet, but maybe affordable soon.
What do y’all thinking “becoming” means? If they meant they are already affordable, they would have used the term “are.”
The problem is that they have been “becoming” affordable for 25 years, since the EV1.
Becoming would mean in the process of being affordable. Meaning some have already become, meaning there are affordable cars now.
Idk wtf any sensible person would willingly buy a new car unless there was no other option.
Not only that, most of those cars coming available are from Hertz — they’re rental cars. But not just any rental cars… most are from Hertz’s Uber fleet.
So these are EVs with over 100,000 miles on them, worn out back seats and blistered rear armrests that have been driven by employees using a fleet lease vehicle. And migrating the cars’ software ownership to an unlocked non-fleet private owner state has proven to be… difficult.
I paid too much for my EV, but am glad to see the prices come down for future buyers. When the price is competitive with ICE vehicles, I think we’ll see rapid adoption.
I got my EV used, and in three years I’ve already saved more on gas than I paid for it.
EVs are so much cheaper to maintain and operate; no gas, no oil changes, no transmission, no sparkplugs or timing belts. If the sale prices are close, the total cost of ownership will be massively in favor of the EV.
Modern cars in general are cheaper to operate. Have had a hybrid for 7 or 8 years. Other than annual oil changes and one change of tires, it has been zero maintenance. Still on the original brake pads thanks to regen braking (which EVs also benefit from, but the extra weight forces more frequent use of friction brakes.)
Wait WHAT? EVs don’t require regular maintenance like a normal car does? That’s SICK (if true)
It does require maintenance, but you don’t have to worry about the engine, transmission, turbos and other related moving parts. Your maintenance is basically brakes, tyres and other simple and cheap wear and tear parts.
Most of the complexity in a combustion vehicle is in the engine and transmission, both things that an EV hasn’t got. A lot of mechanical compromises are made to allow converting gasoline explosions into forward momentum.
An EV will still require brakes and tires, and eventually it’ll need replacement suspension components and probably wheel bearings just the same as any other car. And at some point it will surely need a coolant flush if the battery pack is liquid cooled, which it probably is.
But it will not require engine oil changes, air filter replacements, spark plugs, transmission flushes, a replacement clutch, or transmission rebuild; nor will it ever need a belt replacement, pulleys, tensioners, or idlers; nor a timing belt replacement, emissions system repairs, and thieves will never steal its catalytic converter.
An EV will, however, eventually require a battery pack replacement. Which is guaranteed not to be cheap.
Are you not including the cost of electricity into your estimate? It is cheaper then gas manly because it is not taxed out the wazoo yet.
I happen to live next to a free charger provided by the state, and not far from a free fast charger provided by the dealership, so it’s essentially free for me.
Electricity here usually costs about $0.12 per kwh, which can charge the car for 4-5 miles of range. That’s $0.84 to go 28 miles.
Most people charge at home just by plugging the car into an outlet, so I have no idea how that would be taxed. With EVs we pay the road tax during vehicle registration, which is an extra $100 each year.
Which is why automakers and big oil have fought so hard against bringing down the cost of EVs.
When the price is competitive with ICE vehicles, I think we’ll see rapid adoption.
they already cost $10k outside the united states so the price is already beyond competitive; the real barrier to adoption will be once/if the united states removes the 100% tariff they’ve placed on chinese ev’s.
fuck you NYT, define affordable… Nope, that’s not affordable.
Nope, that’s not affordable.
i had the same thought and i’m also thinking that i’m going to keep my 15 year old car until it dies in the hopes that i can get those brand new $10k ev’s that people outside the united states can get right now.
Stuff like this is starting to make its way into automotive youtubers feeds now. I just saw one where he picked up a Model S P85D for like $10k or something crazy because it was “insurance totaled”. The issue was they’d let the battery die in the lot and some idiots didn’t think to charge it.
Recently, Mr. Lawrence said, customers have been snapping up used Teslas for a little over $20,000, after applying a $4,000 federal tax credit.
3rd sentence?
I’ll share the rest because the paywall:
Carmakers including Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, have announced plans for electric vehicles that would sell new for as little as $25,000.
More than half of the used electric vehicles on the market sell for less than $30,000, according to Recurrent, a research firm that focuses on the used E.V. market.
Over 20k used, meanwhile China’s getting literally half the price new. But dems and republicans have joined hands in stopping this boon for the climate.
Yeah when you use literal slaves instead of union labour, costs are down. I’m not willing to trade my humanity to save a few dollars and a debatable improvement to the climate disaster (I doubt the manufacture and extraction practices in China are anything approaching clean).
IMO this is a rare case of Washington doing the right thing.
Edit For the benefit of anyone at risk of being fooled by authoritarian propaganda, there is a plethora of evidence of slave labour used throughout the Chinese economy, from uyghur muslims to foxcons indentured workers. It’s prevelent through the supply chain for many, many industries, and that alone warrants discentives on imports until such time as these practices end.
To suggest that individual businesses, who are built within this system, may be somehow operating outside of it is clearly absurd, however it’s simply not possible for a layman to unpack and debate the supply chains and business practices hidden behind the bamboo curtain.
The discourse below is an example of how bad faith arguments can create doubt, by employing strawman arguments and ignoring actual points raised to create the appearance of being reasonable by hiding behind “citation needed” type arguments. If you read through it, you’ll see that the propagandist doesn’t once engage in anything I’ve actually said - this is intentional, they do not want to be in a position where any claim they make can be contested, nor do they actually want to directly contest any claim I’ve made. Rather they only want to sow doubt in what I’m saying, which takes considerably more effort to discredit than any actual claim.
Need a source for these EV factories using slave labor.
And by all means lets debate on the climate impact of these vehicles, what parts are you saying are a problem? While Americas been manufacturing more and more combustion trucks and SUVs, China has been leaving us in the green tech dust, ramping up renewable energy and EV production.
Google forced labour in China yourself, it isn’t my responsibility to provide resources to those choosing wilful ignorance or living under a rock when there’s masses of well documented human rights violations and masses of evidence documenting appallingly negligent mining and manufacturing practices.
The Chinese cars that are half price don’t include any safety features, have a theoretical top speed of 80 mph, and a battery range of 100 miles. Those ones would never make it to the US even without tariffs.
An advertised top speed of 80 means that, assuming you have ideal road conditions, tire conditions, are on a flat road, have no wind, and a long distance to get up to speed, you will hover at 78. There are plenty of places with a 65 mph speed limit, wind, and a big hill. Besides, most people will occasionally exceed the speed limit to “overtake traffic”.
(1) My shitbox 2006 Honda can go up to 120mph stock. They engineer cars to go twice their typical operating speed so the mechanical parts are not overstressed during normal operation. Imagine if you were trying to pass on the highway at 80 and your car literally tore itself apart.
(2) South Dakota
I realize this isn’t why you mentioned the range of those vehicles, but I like to point out where I can that only a single digit percentage of all driven trips are more than fifty miles.
More to the point of the thread, if people could get over this reason for not buying electric, there could be much cheaper options by halving the battery capacities in these vehicles. Of course that would mean the manufacturers would have to make them, which seems unlikely. Worthwhile to point out though I think.
I am not saying it is right, but many people online demand that their EV be able to go much more than 200 miles/charge. I am not sure if that is a majority opinion or just a very vocal minority.
Chinese EVs subsidized with prison labor and CCP funds to undercut the market and stagnate long-term innovation, what a boon to humanity!
But can they make them much much bigger? I hope so! It worked for ICE cars right? Just make them as big as a house and watch every day as they park north, south, east and west bound on the various freeways for the night.
They’re already fucking huge. Every EV in the US is an SUV or pickup. You want a small electric commuter in 2024, your only option is an ebike.
Most of those ‘SUVs’ are what we used to would call ‘station wagon’ or ‘compact wagon’.
Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, Mach-E, Model 3, Lyriq, and Blazer EV I would say aren’t particularly ‘big’ but all are ‘SUV’. You have Model 3 which is not even ‘technically’ an SUV. You also have the Leaf, the Niro EV, the Mini Cooper SE, which are all relatively smaller.
The models that are typical ‘large’ SUVs are relatively few. The EV9, the Rivian, maybe the Model X are the ones off the top of my head that are “Ford Explorer” big or larger. Yes the pickup trucks are blighted by the same “cosplay as a big rig” design language inflicted on the ICE pickups, except for CyberTruck which somehow managed to be even worse.
Maybe these cars don’t classify as SUVs by some metric, but they are definitely not small. Every vehicle in the US has gotten bigger in the last decade and EVs are no exception.
OK, I’ll bring receipts. Literally none of the battery EVs sold in the US in the past 4 years even register as “small cars.” Compare that to the rest of the world where they’re nearly a quarter of the market.
Seriously, I just want an EV Sportscar. Give me something Z car sized, RWD and no extras.
The closest thing to that is the Ioniq 5 N, which has a mode that simulates shifting and pipes vroom vroom noises through the speakers to simulate revs.
It’s honestly the only electric that’s appealing to me, mainly because of the shifting and the vroom vroom. And even then it’s too big.
Kia ev6 gt. Seriously, go drive one. And even better than rwd, it’s AWD (if you actually care about performance more than burnouts)
The MG cyberster seems promising. I’m drivng the MG4 and I rely like the car.
RWD is silly on an EV. You can have four motors, one for each wheel, which will give you torque vectoring and other features. Trust me, additional Gs in turns are way more fun than skids.
Literally what I’m waiting for. I live alone, I have a 5km commute with crappy public transport. Too far to walk, bike in winter sucks, so some closed space for one or two people that can transport a bit of groceries is the largest I want. Smart sized, but affordable please.
