Imagine apartments built into what used to be department stores, (Oh, you’re JC Penny 203? I’m at Sears 106). Get those old arcades up and running. Set up meal stations at the food court. Once people actually live there, stores will start to move back in.
If I’m unable to finish my life in my own home, that doesn’t sound like a terrible option.
Those are also the “mall rat” generations, so it’d be pretty fitting lol.
We can watch the original Fast and Furious, recreate a mockup of HTML eBay and put 5hp stickers on our mobility scooters with RGB under glow lighting, and sub’s around our nitrous bottles.
I live my life one quarter footprint store front at a time…
And, naturally, we’d be hauling boomboxes blasting gangsta rap in the baskets of our mobility scooters. lol.
Our generation’s old-folks home gonna be lit
Not even renovated, just set me up in a hot topic.
Can’t. The goth kids burned it down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvUDHpPgb4
Have you been in a Spencer’s recently? Remember the skeezy area in the back? That’s now the whole thing.
As a GenX, I would prefer seeing them made into some sort of public space? We are losing a lot of that, at least where I live. Indoor space in particular.
Can you provide an example since in not fully understanding what you’re after?
I commented below with a similar idea. Like a public indoor park, for when Outside™ is no longer an option for recreation due to climate issues. They are big enough to accommodate large playgrounds, both child and adult style, running tracks, swimming pools, sports fields/courts. Keep the food court, sure, throw in a library, etc.
If we ever get a house and senate progressive enough to shave like 0.000000001% of the military budget we could put one in every abandoned mall and have funds left over.
Yeah that sounds awesome!
I was just trying to say that once you privatize something like a mall to make it housing or whatever it is, you will never get it back. The city or some public trust should hold onto the property. What you actually do with it depends on what would be best for the community I guess?
Being a Canadian, just having some indoor places where you can gather in to get out of the cold in the dead of winter is something I don’t think we should give up.
counterargument; malls, arcades, and bookstores should come back in style because they were amazing and we don’t know what we missed until it’s gone.
They will come back as the US shifts away from car centered culture, malls thrive in Europe
How will shifting away from cars result in more people going to the mall? How are you supposed to get there?
Well optimally you have 2 legs, you could use those, also public transport.
Video with more info https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=SL-vnIV14DPwFH9I
Public transportation. In Germany at least, many of the train stations are located underneath common points of interest, such as malls, airports, downtown, etc. As a result, they are nearly always flushed with people.
By subway. By bus. By bike. Walking. The world by and large doesn’t revolve around cars. How do you think Europeans get there?
If they come back, I hope they will be more accessible on foot, with a bike, or with efficient public transit. Because if they are still surrounded by deserts of parking lots, only filled with EVs instead of ICEs, they can continue to die.
In my country (and I think most of Europe) malls (especially those in more central areas) have underground parking, or limited above-ground parking. There is a really nice one which is connected to a big park in the back. So maybe you can replace the parking lots with apartment buildings, recreational spaces and transit infrastructure and maybe include some underground parking.
you have to go all the way down below the dirt to prep a site for residential units. With a toilet, shower, and sink per unit, the density of sewer and water plumbing is much higher than commercial. Fire codes also demand egress points (a.k.a. windows) for every bedroom - hard to do Inside a big box retail space.
Also the weight for housing is much higher than the structure is designed for with large open space retail. If the thing didn’t collapse, it would probably sink into the ground enough to cause problems.
Now, if one could find a way to replace the department store footprints with housing, and have the mall corridor administered by a municipal authority without some criminal venture capital thief, something like this could be a great way to create practical compact and walkable living spaces. We need stuff like this, but no one in real estate can act in good faith with long term sustainability. Quarterly return vampires are too deep into their suicide run to handle sustainable life goals, even if the doors fall off mid flight.
Is a mall on Black Friday ( in the mall heyday) really lighter than a residence of the same footprint? Or is the average weight over time more important than a dozen hours every once in a while?
The more open a floor plan appears, where there are not large support columns, the lower the weight bearing capacity will be in general.
With something like modern skyscrapers that appear to have open floor plans, there is a massive structure somewhere within the design. The structure is usually in the center built around the elevators and stairs, although there are other methods too. This structure is engineered for the specific loads of each floor and the total structure, along with various environmental factors such as weather. Like all structures, this starts with a foundation that is large enough for the designed load with a small margin of safety added. The cost of the foundation is directly related to the weight bearing capacity. No one is building structures with substantial extra unused capacity. Likewise, people like the aesthetics of open indoor spaces. This involves designing a structure with the minimal amount of load bearing capacity so that it does not need support columns throughout for the roof and upper floors. This particular aesthetic constraint means that the total load bearing capacity of department stores is very close to what you see in a typical store. If you start adding a bunch of walls and furniture to subdivide this space, there us absolutely no chance that the structure could handle the load. Even if you would like to add support columns, the foundation is engineered for the load. You can’t reinforce something like this in a cost effective way. The size and depth of the pad, rebar density and structure all must be substantially different. You’re likely to need piles or other features that tie in the structure to deeper bedrock elements of the underlying earth.
Malls are usually multiple stories. Couldn’t you do all the plumbing on the first floor to avoid going underground. And then add structural reinforcement at the first floor to prevent higher floors from collapsing / sinking? Yeah for egress you’d have to put the bedrooms along the exterior walls. But I’m sure you could still get plenty of use over the space which does not border an exterior wall both as part of the unit and as part of some shared community area.
Watch when an old mall is demolished. Look at the structure and the way the heavy equipment is used. You’ll start to see the issue better. It is usually sketchy business to demolish because of the spans involved. It is more like a light bridge construction than it is a typical building. It can’t be demolished incrementally like taking out bites of the structure and working across. The ones I’ve seen drop the roof first and clean up what remains.
Only an engineer can really say one way or another, and every building will be different. However, I’m willing to bet the load bearing structure is specialized and unique to the application. I doubt there is any flexibility for repurposing more than 10-15% outside of the tolerance you see utilized. It is like the question why can’t a Honda Civic perform like a Bugatti. Technically anything is possible if you point your money machine gun at it in a currency downpour, but is it still a Civic when a Bugatti is cheaper?
The smarter option is likely to demolish the light structure of the department store and build a proper apartment building that is then attached back onto the mall corridor.
How do earth-sheltered homes comply? I’ve seen a few, and they have no windows in most of the rooms, including bedrooms. And there’s a few who’ve taken to living in caves, old mines, and decommissioned missile silos. There must be an exception to this code.
Forget that, how to tower blocks comply? There isn’t a single exterior fire escape on any of the multi-story apartment buildings anywhere in my entire county, and some of those fuckers are 7 or 8 stories tall. Your choices in the event of fire are an interior stairwell, or splat.
In modern (post 70’s) buildings, the interior stairwell is the emergency fire exit. New York (and some other old cities in the US) buildings are stereotypically plastered with external emergency fire stairs because they are so old and their internal stairs aren’t fit (are actually a fire hazard) for emergency exit. The exterior fire escape is the exception to the building code, not the rule. They’re there to compensate for the fact the buildings predate most of our modern understanding of fire and other accidents management. Modern multi-story apartments are way more resilient to fire hazards than a 1920’s building, even when they are taller.
On the event of a fire you are supposed to leave your apartment and run down stairs, for which it should be: equipped with emergency lights, properly signalized to indicate exits, and use only doors with push bars towards the exterior. A well built building will have all rooms with a direct line of sight towards the apartment exit, fire alarms on every floor, extinguishers in all common areas (ideally every apartment should have one inside for the tenants), a fire hydrant or fire fighting water point in front of the building and a clearly signalized safe spot outside (distance away from the building so the risk of getting hit by something falling from the building during an earthquake is lower). The building should have fire retardant protection between each floor and between the common areas and the apartments.
This is not from any particular code, I’m no expert on any of that, just what I was taught from a firefighting volunteer friend, it is really good information to assess the safety of a building as a potential renter.
