I remember once building a nice charity program that would make meals for homeless people. I had deluded myself into thinking I was building some kind of revolution or whatever.
I had a book club where we all read theory, and it basically was just a tacked on addition to the food charity.
It was really stupid, but it also broke my heart when a guy deliberately sabotaged it because I was a tankie. It was set up in a very level way where we all basically took turns being the coordinator. He intentionally did nothing and told everyone that each role for that week (driver, cook, etc) was filled. Then when the day for distribution came he laughed about how it wasn’t going to happen.
I had to buy like 10 pizzas that day, and I remember not having internet because those pizzas were my bill money. The group kept functioning for a while until it fizzled out, but not because of him.
Most people of all political leanings were willing to help me with my stupid idea, but not that guy. I think about that a lot.
Mutual aide is not really the issue with tankies, the problem is the authoritarianism. Mutual aide can be very effective when done properly. For example, anarchists tend to answer the question of “leeches” by giving them the resources to self-actualize, and if the “leech” does not care to do that, they can be kicked out of an anarchist community.
Maybe those are problems with the ideology, but its not with the people who believe it. I’ve met a lot of people who have very incoherent beliefs. Nobody bullied them and so they absorbed the sane beliefs of the group.
I really just don’t think exclusion or hostility are useful unless people are dangerous. A Nazi makes Jewish and gay members of a group scared. A tankie really doesn’t because 90% of the time they’re gay or trans.
Then I haven’t even gotten to how a lot of people join extremist ideologies because they are lonely and need friends. So when you combine that with how small scale local activism is, kicking safe useful people out of a group is just abusing the socially inept.
I am a queer person, and I am scared of tankies because they support the creation of an authoritarian state which is fundamentally incompatible with the ideas queer liberation and self-determination.
I’m all for communism. Every day is a new day for me to witness and live the horrors of capitalism. Hell, I got laid off a couple months ago and I may be facing homelessness soon. I could go on a tangent here but it’s very clear to me that we need a different system soon. But I don’t want to build a “fiscally leftists, socially conservative” society. I want it all left.
A tankie really doesn’t because 90% of the time they’re gay or trans.
citation needed
Authoritarianism isn’t a thing. No state wants to suppress dissent.
Dissent is suppressed when it needs to be because there’s foreign powers trying to destabilize your state. Like when the most powerful country in the world creates a Central Intelligence Agency with the overt purpose of eradicating communism. Which they did covertly through the funding of internal dissent, terrorism and sabotage of infrastructure.
Unless you think the CIA just twiddled their thumbs for 70 years, of course. In that case I recommend reading the book ‘Killing Hope’ by William Blum.
wait, so you’re saying that even the fascist states (e.g. the nazis) were only trying to defend themselves against foreign powers trying to destabilize their state? or am i misinterpreting you?
a state doesn’t have a mind of its own, it consists of people and those people are often power-hungry and do actively want to suppress dissent regardless of what would be good for the state. the whole point of socialism is to dismantle hierarchies, but by placing a powerful leader without accountability on the top you have undermined the whole concept
maybe cia actions were what caused them to be authoritarian, but that doesn’t excuse their actions in any way. the moment they became authoritarian, cia had already defeated socialism
suppressing “dissent” in the form of e.g. refusing to follow laws about distribution of resources (within reason) is one thing, but suppressing dissenting voices is a whole different thing altogether and those two shouldn’t be lumped together in one category. the former is a part of the normal job of a state while the latter is authoritarianism
I am trying to be as respectful as possible here, but saying that authoritarianism doesn’t exist is an absolutely insane take. Obviously the CIA did a lot to try and stop communism, we all know that. And why wouldn’t a state want to suppress dissent, do you think that all “communist” regimes were these perfect, do nothing wrong utopias? Of course a state wants to suppress dissent, it gives them more control over their people, Governments are greedy, even if they claim to be communist. I don’t think the extent of mass surveillance, forced propaganda, censorship, and imprisonment could be justified by "stopping a foreign entity. Here are some examples of the things authoritarian “communist” regimes did to supposedly “fight foreign powers”.
Soviet Union (USSR): Under the leadership of Joseph Stalin, the Soviet Union carried out numerous purges and suppressions of dissent. The Great Purge in the late 1930s resulted in the execution or imprisonment of millions of people, including political opponents, intellectuals, military officers, and ordinary citizens accused of disloyalty or counter-revolutionary activities. The state employed the secret police, censorship, forced labor camps (Gulags), and surveillance to maintain control and suppress dissent.
People’s Republic of China: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has a long history of suppressing dissent. During the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), Mao Zedong mobilized student groups known as the Red Guards to target intellectuals, artists, and political opponents. Many individuals were persecuted, imprisoned, or killed. In more recent times, the Chinese government has tightened control over the media, the internet, and social media platforms, censoring content, monitoring online activities, and imprisoning activists and dissidents who challenge the party’s authority.
Cuba: The Cuban government under Fidel Castro and his successors has been known for suppressing dissent. The regime has restricted freedom of speech, assembly, and the press, controlling the media and limiting access to information. Independent journalists, activists, and political opponents have been subject to harassment, imprisonment, and surveillance. The government also tightly controls access to the internet and social media platforms.
North Korea: The totalitarian regime in North Korea, led by the Kim family, has implemented strict controls on information and dissent. The state maintains a pervasive surveillance system and enforces ideological conformity through propaganda, censorship, and forced indoctrination. Any form of dissent or criticism of the regime is severely punished, with individuals and even entire families sent to political prison camps.
East Germany: During the existence of the German Democratic Republic (GDR), the ruling Socialist Unity Party suppressed dissent through surveillance, censorship, and repression. The Ministry for State Security, commonly known as the Stasi, maintained a vast network of informants and spies to monitor citizens’ activities and control dissent. The government restricted travel, controlled the media, and imprisoned those who challenged the state’s authority.
Most suppression of dissent was done to citizens of the state. If you think that any of this can be justified by “fighting foreign powers”, you are absolutely delusional.
For what?
For idolizing the soviet union and the people’s republic of china, who have done some very evil things. Tankies always try to undermine the sins of authoritarian regimes. They keep trying to instate authoritarian regimes knowing full well that they have killed so many historically.
If you want truly based leftism, try anarchism.
I’ve created no authoritarian regimes by giving food to homeless people. It was basically just unpaid charity work covered in red paint.
People’s ideas are fluid anyway. I made a lot of leftists into tankies by just being nice and tolerant. I’ve seen tankies become anarchists because they’re surrounded by them. I never succeeded at anything, and neither did they sadly. I wish they had. It was really nice helping eachother. I’ve never had so many friends. We should all become activists because it gives us so many friends.
It was really nice and I wish more people were like that online. In real life that’s how it is.
Maybe you’ve also absorbed your beliefs from people around you, maybe not. I’d recommend you read this essay by comrade ziq, give it a thought factcheck it if you want to. I find standing in support of the states or atleast the supposed ideologies of the states that have done terrible things (that at least don’t fit in my ideology of tolerance) to among others, queer people and other leftists, very distasteful and repulsive. It’s not that we say “fuck tankies” for giving food to homeless people, that’s not an uniquely tankie thing. It’s the tanks yall.
Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin: Stalin’s rule was characterized by forced collectivization, which resulted in widespread famine and the death of millions of people, particularly during the Ukrainian Holodomor. Stalin’s purges led to the imprisonment, execution, or exile of millions, including members of the Communist Party, military officials, intellectuals, and perceived political opponents.
The Great Leap Forward in China: Under Mao Zedong’s leadership, the Great Leap Forward aimed to rapidly transform China’s economy and society. However, the policies implemented, such as forced collectivization and the backyard steel furnaces, resulted in a disastrous famine, leading to the deaths of an estimated 20 to 45 million people between 1958 and 1962.
Cultural Revolution in China: The Cultural Revolution, initiated by Mao Zedong, aimed to reassert his authority and eliminate perceived enemies within the Communist Party and society. The movement led to widespread political persecution, purges, and violence, resulting in millions of deaths, as well as the destruction of cultural heritage, academic institutions, and economic disruption.
Khmer Rouge in Cambodia: The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979. During their regime, they implemented radical agrarian communism, forcing urban dwellers into rural work camps and carrying out mass executions, torture, and forced labor. It is estimated that between 1.7 to 2.2 million people died as a result of execution, starvation, and disease.
North Korea under Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il: The oppressive regime in North Korea has been associated with widespread human rights abuses, political repression, forced labor camps, and the suppression of dissent. The regime’s policies have resulted in severe food shortages and famine, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Because they want to bully someone, and tankies are acceptable. It’s not any different from the tankies that kick people out of their book clubs for not worshipping a dictator from a country they’ve never even been in.
People only argue on the internet because they want to scream at someone - anyone.
I refuse to argue politics with people. It’s better to ask a tankie “will you help me with my project?” They’ll either say yes or reveal that they’re a bully too.
I don’t know what tankies are, and at this point, I’m afraid to ask.
A particular part of communist who fully support sending the tanks to suppress their pears just because they think differently. They worship Stalin, Mao and other monsters just because they used the banner of communists.
As you might expect, a lot communists don’t like them.
We support Stalin and Mao because they advanced the Marxist cause. We support them because they worked towards establishing communism. Most of what the west spreads about them is blatant propaganda. The CIA itself admitted in an internal brief that Stalin was never a dictator. I also personally know people who have lived under Stalin and speak very highly of him. If you read their works, it would be obvious that they’re not monsters and they never were.
Most people who are labeled tankies don’t support Russia like the Beehaw user wants you to believe FYI, we just think historical conditions caused the Ukraine war and that those conditions show a trend of US expansionism rather than expansionist ambitions by a country with the GDP of Italy.
…But just like how not supporting democrats makes you a republican, not supporting America makes you a Putinist in their eyes. So wharever.
China is actually a controversial subject because a lot of people think the Deng reforms marked the moment China turned capitalist. Others think it was necessary to mature China’s economy and particularly since Xi Jing Ping became chairman have had a lot of faith in China’s transition plan.
What they said about tankies being fascists also doesn’t make sense. Fadcists exist because of the threat of communism. They took state power to eradicate communists, preserve capital and, often times, establishing a superior racial class while doing so. Communists takes state power to abolish capitalism, eradicate poverty and create a classless society. They are literally opposites.
And always remember this suppression of free speech ONLY happened after western powers attempted to “strangle Bolshevism in its crib” through invasions, coup attempts and supporting reactionary groups.
So yes, surprisingly, socialist states suppressed dissent after the most powerful states in modern history openly declared a holy war on their existence (which includes supporting fascist states like Nazi Germany btw). Very strange.
So does this include all Communists or just authoritarian communism? aka red fash
Definitely not all communists or socialists, at least that was not the case for the subreddit. I’m pretty sure the mod for this community put out a clarification post if you want to check it out.
Noone except some liberals refer to non-authoritarian communists as tankies, and even then when they do that they know they’re being misleading
Hard to tell bc so many people on Lemmy use “Tankie” as “anyone to the left of me”
