Lemmy: bOth PArTiES ARE zIoniSt gEnociDERS!
To hear the tankies on Lemmy:
OnLy DEmoCraTs aRe ZiOnisT GeNOCiderS! VotE fOr RepUBLicaNs!
Can you give me an example of this? It’s so ubiquitous it can be generalized, so surely it will be easy!
It’s in nearly every single thread they are present in. They constantly attack Harris, and never mention Trump’s stance.
“if you don’t vote for the good genocider, the bad genocider will get into office. And he is RUDE!”
Literally anyone holding Harris’s feet to the fire right now of all moments, when the outcome of the election depends on it. You win the election first, you moderate your demands until then, and then you raise the volume on your calls for change.
Because only one of those two candidates has quite literally suggested arresting and deporting ALL protesters. Undermining the only person who can prevent him from getting to the office that would enable that shit is just as bad if not worse than actually just quietly voting for him.
The amount of intellectual dishonesty I hear out of tankies is insane. The second you call them out, they ban you and delete your comments.
All these people are convinced that Trump would be worse for Palestinians.
And maybe they’re right, maybe Trump will send in straight up death squads. Maybe he’ll build vans that pipe the exhaust into the cargo area and ship them to tel Aviv. Maybe he’ll start sending the Israelis Zyclon b.
But the fact remains. The last year has been the most deadly for Palestinians. Ever. More Palestinians have been killed in the last year than died during the formation of the state of Israel. More Palestinians have had their homes destroyed in the last year, then ever before in modern history.
At this point, saying Trump would be worse for Palestine is like saying that Himmler would have been worse for the Jews. Possibly technically correct, but also a poor attempted genocide denial.
Hey, I wonder despite all that if Hamas regrets Oct. 7th?. [checks news] Nope.
Gaza was am open air prison before the October 7th attacks. Prisoners might have a bad time after a prison riot, but such actions dont happen without context.
you realize trump genuinely considered using a nuclear bomb during his office term right?
What do you mean “he might be worse”
But the fact remains. The last year has been the most deadly for Palestinians. Ever.
also i feel like there was probably at least one famine that killed significantly more people at one point in history.
Not only considered using a nuke, but wanted to use a nuke to put out a hurricane…
https://www.axios.com/2019/08/25/trump-nuclear-bombs-hurricanes
Trump feels the only thing Israel is doing wrong is not killing Palestinians fast enough.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
Worse, if Trump wins, he will bring the worst Israeli policies to the United States.
- He will take Israel’s policy of illegally invading Lebanon as a “security zone” and apply it to Mexico:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
- He will set up internment camps in the United States for immigrants and others classed as “undesirable”:
- He will purge the government of any and all opposition:
- He wants to arrest journalists:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/kash-patel-trump-administration/index.html
To be clear here, if Harris does not win, Trump will. Those are your two choices. You can choose to vote for Harris or you court disaster. There is no viable 3rd choice.
Ok.
More Palestinians killed than in 1948. But, we can’t criticize the administration committing a holocaust, we can’t say anything negative about Hitler because “Himmler would be even worse”
I still remember when you shitlibs said “WHATABOUTISM” was bad, now you use it unironically to defend ethnic cleansing.
If Donald Trump had the faintest fucking clue what any of that was he would be getting very excited…
Thank goodness it looks like he will lose.
Now, can we talk about the current administration enabling, supporting, and funding the worst ethnic cleansing the middle east has seen in centuries?
says who?
Is the only “non zionist genocide supporter” position that israel needs to cease existence tomorrow?
According to tankies, the only “non-zionist genocide supporter” position is actually the ethnic cleansing of Israeli Jews.
Even if that were true, there’s a value proposition to work through here. Like most sane people, I typically prioritize my own children and the children of people I know over people in a country on the other side of the planet I will never interact with and whose fate will never affect in the slightest. That’s just basic triage.
This is not to say I don’t care about them, but looking at it from a purely pragmatic stance, it’s not an issue that’s going to change my position am inch on who to vote for in this election.
So we agree: both sides of this election support the ongoing genocide being committed by Israel.
At this point, saying Trump would be worse for Palestine is like saying that Himmler would have been worse for the Jews. Possibly technically correct, but also a poor attempted genocide denial.
More have died and more have been made refugees, in the last year; than during the Nakba. This has been the deadliest year for Palestinians, by an order of magnatude, in modern history.
So take your “Trump would be worse” bullshit. Wrap it in sandpaper. And shove it up your ass.
Has she promised to stop sending bombs?
Don’t think so either. Seems the US State is dedicated to genocide and it is disrespectful to pretend otherwise.
The best chance now, in my opinion, is to vote what is by far the lesser evil and than get active to either improve the parties or create a voting system that allows more than two to have realistic chances
Not the point. It’s a comment about how actions would speak louder than words.
She promised to not stop.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/harris-walz-hold-first-joint-network-tv-interview-cnn-2024-08-29/
Translation:
I will send Israel more bombs.
“the middle east can’t figure their shit out”
—the civil western man after decades of colonization, coups, arming terrorists, assassinations, bombing, wars, torture, and otherwise meddling in the middle east.
thank you so much for figuring shit out for yourself, o civilized man. please update us whenever you figure out how to do literally anything without massive exploitation. it’s been a quarter millenium, we’re waiting.
Typical leftist misrepresenting the facts again.
We are looking at like, 2+ centuries of western meddling in the middle east. At a bare minimum 75 years. not just a quarter century.
So because a few people who cover up their strive for power with bullshit ideologies that are tangential to religion you want everyone surrounding them, innocent civilians, to die - people who have been born into these countries, who cannot leave even if they were willing to sever the ties to their beloved ones and everything they knew, children, disabled people, you just want them to die alongside - because you are sick of reading about it on the news?
Fuck you then.
Religious zealots blowing each other up and I’m the bad guy because I think they are wrong for doing it. Got it.
I mean, the middle East was fine until y’all fuckers came in at the beginning of the 20th century and started taking people’s countries. They were being given to invaders like slices of pie, ya know.
Are you under the impression that the genocide exists in a vacuum devoid of international context?
America was locked into that in the Obama era. Israel gets massive amounts of aid.
And our presidents have been saying “two state solution” for far longer AFAIK. Frankly anybody still pushing that line in 2024 might as well just drop the mask and say what Trump is saying.
man some of this rhetoric really makes you think… “you are literally as bad as a nazi if you think that complete and total end of this long running conflict/war is probably unlikely to go well”
since when was there a problem with a two state solution? Currently the issue is that there really isn’t a two state solution due to the strip repeatedly fucking itself in the ass.
Granted israel doesn’t get a clean pass here either, with all the settler bullshit they’re doing.
There is more than enough legal reason to justify stopping sales to Israel but the rules are not applied equally: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1240857410/how-do-leahy-laws-apply-to-u-s-support-for-israel
So it seems like they choose not to and I’m not sure if there’s a justification for that which isn’t fucking atrocious
No one is criticizing Harris stance on the war. It’s her promise to continue the unconditional support of Israel that’s the problem.
Biden says the same stuff as Kamala…
I’m sure she’ll handle it better than Biden, and absolutely better than trump would.
But I just don’t think she’ll do enough, which is disappointing because “enough” is just cutting off aid money and weapons sales until they stop actively committing a genocide.
If they need aid to defend against Lebanon or Iran in an actual war, maybe they should stop committing a genocide at the same time?
Really seems like if Israel was actually concerned with defense, they wouldn’t spend so much time bombing refugees.
It seems to me like you are trying to make people be pro Harris. It is not a question, ah least for me, between the two options for us president Harris to my mind is the clearly better one. Your entire argument on weapons assumes that Israel is defending itself when it is not and that somehow the “guardrails” are going to keep the weapons from being used offensively. Unfortunately Israel has been using the weapons offensively, the US has been supporting them knowing the weapons are being used offensively. What did the US invasion of Afghanistan achieve? When US went out of Afghanistan dis they leave a paradise behind? It is the same here, US’ presence in this conflict is empowering one party and that needs to stop. You talk about a future plan while disregarding the present. Israel’s actions need to be condemned, the war on Palestinian people stopped. Who gives a flying fuck about 10 years down the road when you are killing an entire generation, starving am entire generation.
Israeli has been a belligerent country who has not stopped terrorizing their neighbors since their formation. Zionists created Israel through a campaign of terror against British mandate Palestine and continue it to this day against Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iran.
Why are we supporting a country who does not want peace with their neighbors? They claim to be defending themselves by preemptively attacking any country that so much sneezes on them. Israel has even attacked the United States on many occasions.
If they want to be belligerent bullies in the region, they should have to do it on their own without dragging the US and it’s allies into yet another middle eastern conflict.
They even assassinated the leader Hamas while they were negotiating a ceasefire. Does that sound like a peaceful country?
Bar Palestine, where they want to annex the West Bank, Israel would be more than happy with a live and let live relation. The entire reason Hamas wanted to escalate hostilities was because Israel was succeeding in just that, and they couldn’t stop it otherwise.
The other player is Iran. You should think about whether it’s right you included Jordan in your list and then why they’d help intercept Iran’s missile strike some months ago…
It is not just money and sale of weapons. US has been using veto power in support of Israel. Out of 89 uses of veto in the security council about 45 have been in support of Israel. US vetoed the Dec 8 resolution calling for a humanitarian aid. Givven how israel is conducting its war, how is own ministers are calling for murder and the reports from UN observers it is boggling to my mind how you can still have doubts and say “if they wanted to commit genocide”. The restrictions you are so adamant will save the Palestinian people are Flagrantly being disregarded by Israel and the US has in it’s own report said that Israel’s use of US weapons is inconsistent with humanitarian law, but since the US lacks specific evidence of specific weapons bring used so Israel is being given the benefit of the doubt. This is so bafflingto me, you don’t give benefit of the doubt to the person who is killing, you give it to the person being killed.
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Israel primarily needs air strike capability, and lots of it. No other country could provide Israel with bombs and planes on the scale that the US currently supplies them. A US arms embargo would force Israel to use up its current stockpiles, and could seriously affect their war effort.
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Despite the fact that Israel has initiated all of the recent military strikes in Iran, Syria, and Lebanon, none of its neighbors, not even Iran, want escalation to a full scale conflict. The idea that they would all suddenly attack Israel following a US arms embargo is sheer fantasy.
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The suggestion that the US is actually managing to restrain Israel’s conduct in Gaza and the West Bank seems pretty naïve. The US has continually refused to impose any meaningful limits on Israel’s use of its weapons or sanctions on specific units of the IDF even though the State Dept had to basically acknowledge that yes, Israel had “most likely committed war crimes but no, we are unable or unwilling to elaborate further”. They’re pretty obviously having to spin the reality on the ground so it sounds like war crimes are not being committed, even though they so clearly are, just so that they can continue to bypass the Leahy law.
I’m sure she’ll handle it better than Biden, and absolutely better than trump would.
Hoped that, but DNC killed that hope :(
If you think there’s even a chance of Kamala being as bad as Biden in this regard, you haven’t been paying attention to just how bad Biden is with Israel.
He literally has no line, and has been publicly saying for 50 years absolutely nothing would ever make him lessen his support for Israel.
And he fucking means it.
I don’t see her changing what’s currently policy, so status quo will continue.
Kamala will be the same as Biden on practically every issue
Which overall, is fine.
But on this issue of genocide, is damning
I think the real talk is that she’s a little better than Biden, but Biden is pretty bad. It’s hard to say what she would be doing because i get the feeling she’s holding back out of desire to not undermine Biden’s policies. I’m not anticipating much change overall, though. Sadly, we’re all left watching the genocide.
