lemm.ee

7 points

1 year ago

Do you, like, investigate any of this? Are you not familiar with the attempts to topple Venezuela, the brief coup government in Bolivia that massacred protestors, or anything that isn’t a White House Press Release? Do you think the bombs dropped on Yemen were for democracy? Do you think the continued colonizing of Palestine is for that purpose?

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ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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1 point

1 year ago

Weirdly I can see the actions you’re describing as wrong, but still understand the benefits of American democracy.

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7 points

1 year ago

Just so we can move on and not talk in circles, is that you tacitly admitting that the US FP is not about “supporting democracy”?

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ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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1 point

1 year ago

Twenty century US foreign policy was about supporting capitalism, not democracy. I assume you’re referring to the CIA lead coups in the 20th century that upended socialist countries. I would like to think we’ve learned from these mistakes in the 21st century.

As for drone strikes in Yemen in the 21st century, which is what I think you are referring to, killing civilians is obviously wrong. I think not fighting terrorist organizations would also be wrong. It’s in the interest of democracies to fight back against terrorists.

edit: Oh and I am ethnically Jewish, so I do have a lot of opinions about Palestine and Israel. Israel is an apartheid state, but I still believe in a two-state solution.

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9 points

1 year ago

The coup in Bolivia and the more recent attempts on Venezuela were just a few years ago.

I assume with Libya and Syria you’d just accept the flimsy pretext the US offered like with Yemen despite the barbarous butchering of civilians in all cases. Do you think the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were also for democracy? Are you that far gone?

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ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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1 point

1 year ago

From what I’ve read about Bolivia quickly sounds like that was a conspiracy theory from the dictator. I haven’t heard of any coup attempt by the CIA in Venezuela recently. At a glance there seems to be Silver Corp that did Operation Gideon. It’s not a state sponsored group. I don’t support the concept of just toppling one dictator in exchange for a US friendly dictator. The incentives a dictator has will inevitably lead them to side with other dictatorships over democracies regardless of who put them in power.

I disagree with drone strikes that killed civilians. However, letting terrorists like ISIS run around in Syria and Iraq and now Africa more recently, is a bad idea when they make it their business to butcher civilians for not being extreme as them.

I’m honestly not super familiar NATO’s intervention of Libya. I’ve read a bit. Sounds like it was bungled quite badly.

I mean Bush wanted to kill Saddam, because of the assassination attempt on his dad, Bush senior, by Saddam. The political reality is that we did bring democracy to those countries. I think what we’ve learned from Afghanistan and Iraq is that democracy cannot be forced. People have to want to live, die, and fight for it. And in the case of Iraq, democratic intuitions have to be maintained, or else the country will backslide to authoritarianism.

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/18/silence-us-backed-coup-evo-morales-bolivia-american-states

14 points

1 year ago

From what I’ve read about Bolivia quickly sounds like that was a conspiracy theory from the dictator

The actual coup sounds like it was a conspiracy theory? Or US involvement?

Quickly skimming and finding that the US is faultless is the definition of being a mark.

Regarding VZ, I didn’t mean the 2020 attempt with a few guerillas, I meant mainly the ~2019 attempt that actually caused a national crisis, the one connected to Guaido that was based on lies from the NED and friends.

I disagree with drone strikes that killed civilians.

Most of them do when you don’t consider every boy over 14 a potential terrorist. Anyway:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

However, letting terrorists like ISIS run around in Syria and Iraq and now Africa more recently, is a bad idea when they make it their business to butcher civilians for not being extreme as them.

Syria was opposing terrorists. This shit only makes sense if you think every Muslim with a gun (or within a block of a Muslim with a gun) is a terrorist.

Apologetics for OIF are just disgusting.

What is the possible standard for saying that the US is making excuses rather than believing whatever flimsy pretext they throw out? Because if you support OIF, it seems like you’ll believe anything they say.

The political reality is that we did bring democracy to those countries

You are smoking crack. Libya lies in ruins with open-air slave markets and Syria remains somewhat together despite US attacks on Assad.

I think what we’ve learned from Afghanistan and Iraq is that democracy cannot be forced. People have to want to live, die, and fight for it. And in the case of Iraq, democratic intuitions have to be maintained, or else the country will backslide to authoritarianism.

What is this shit? What possible basis do you have for claiming the US has any interest in democracy when you understand that “democratic” interventions to “liberate” countries in the 20th century were imperialist warmongering? Sometimes it’s even the same country being invaded or otherwise sabotaged both then and now!

It’s pure fucking doublethink. It’s not like the US has come out and said “hey, toppling Allende was bad, we’re prosecuting the people responsible”.

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