Comment by PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works on Kick tankies out of 196

Remember kids, Tankies wants to undermine democracy - same as facists.

Anyone who supports the idea of communism isn’t very intelligent to begin with.

Anyone who makes a wack generic statement like that can’t be particularly “intelligent” either

That doesn’t feel like a good argument, there are many reasons why a government descends into any of those, for one the CIA is known to disrupt any socialist/communist attempt at government and that can and did cause brutalism.

I mean if any attempt to give an alternative to the suffocating order of power is going to have to survive against the pressure of such power of course the only “successful” ones will have traits of authoritarism and strict even violent control of power itself.

Now don’t misunderstand me I’m not saying that authoritarism is good or even that communism would certainly be able to lead to a better rule, I’m arguing that we don’t know that because there are many other factors that can lead to the failures of a system.

Also really a blanket statement followed by generic stereotypes meant to undermine any other opinion will not lead to any intelligent discussion and betterment of any of the sides, we can do so much better.

You can argue conceptually all you want. The fact remains, Communism has failed every time it has been implemented and has always devolved rapidly into an oppressive rule.

Because humans value individualism and Communism is inherently at odds with it.

Apart from that, trying to claim there might be “other factors” is just wild speculation and still side steps the point. Communism doesn’t work in practice.

I’m arguing that communism could work and that not working in our world doesn’t disprove it, for all that matters.

I also think that the concept of failure needs a little attention, I mean you could argue that democracy failed too, it’s supposed to give everyone an equal voice in the system and yet rich people have an incomparably stronger pull on elections and therefore decisions.

I would argue that humans value collectivism more than individualism, the last few centuries would see to go against this notion but for most of humanity we have lived in close knitted communities and valued our dépendance on each others. Even now the most individualist and powerful human would die in matter of months without help from the community (think of the water distribution and sanitation, no water = no food = death).

Thank you for arguing your point though, I appreciate it and it gave me very much food for thought, I’m not even denying that communism failed, it did, it has had its successes but it mostly failed it’s purpose, as did democracy. One of them pulled it off better though, of course democracy.

Because ~~humans value~~ brainwashed humans value individualism despite not having a clue what that even means

FTFY.

Why do you think communism “lead” to authoritarianism? Do you think communism is inherently authoritarian? Is the distinction between Marxism-Leninism and Anarcho-Communism and other ‘communisms’ meaningless to you?

What do you think communism means?

The state is needed to enforce private property, not the lack of it.

Critically, you assume that authority is required for order, so obviously you’re unable to envision whatever it might be that anarchists are getting at.

Sure, communism is an ideal that does not exist in practice currently, but the point of an ideal is to work towards it. The “anarcho” part specifies complete opposition to authority in praxis as well. Strategies could include unionising, community building, mutual aid, permablitzing, FOSS, copyleft, and whatever else can undermine the current power structures while maintaining anarchist principles. Which explicitly excludes Marxist-Leninist strategies of coopting the state, or forming any other kind of heirarchy.

Communism is as much of a fairy tale as the Free Market.

For exactly the same reasons: humans are greedy and selfish.

humans are greedy and selfish

That’s just what you choose to believe. These’s no scientific proof that they make up some kind of transcendent truth about the human condition.

It’s entirely possible that the humans traits of greed and selfishness tend to become much more pronounced when humans are subjected to systems that reward those qualities.

Also, greed and selfishness are distinct from self-interest. And besides, self-interest doesn’t explain the entirety of human behaviour either.

Perhaps other systems that reward collaboration and egalitarianism and autonomy are not only possible, but also more sustainable that the shitshow we’ve got now, and all we need is for enough people to get out of the mental rut of believing capitalist bullshit about “humanity” and “life” just because it’s the status quo.

I’ll state my point again.

Name me one country where Communism has been adopted and hasn’t led to the outcomes I described.

Again, I wait for an example.

Name a country where communism was adopted in the first place

I can’t provide you with examples if I don’t know what you think communism means.

stoners, children and idiots

You lack substance, attack the idea not who voiced it. I am NO communist, but you are intellectually dishonest. If you don’t like communism (the idea) critisize the idea. You don’t even seem to have read “das Kaptial” so how can you even know what Communism even is to begin with?

Authoritarianism, brutalism and opression are independent of economic model. In argentinia they had the most free market capitalism ever in the 80s and they are guilty of all three: Authoritarianism, brutalism and opression.

Please do not conflate these things. The idea and a person claiming to implement that idea are not the same thing. Communism is an idea. Tell us what exactly about that idea you take issue with. Nobody is saying USSR was an El Dorado of free speech. Tbh I would probably have been murdered in the USSR but I probably would have shared the same fate in many other places like post ware spain …

… name one country where communism was adopted in the first place lol

Oh look at the first year political studies student right here Stop projecting 😂

Democracy wouldn’t work if you tried to set it up in middle ages Europe either. All that proves is that the dominant kingdoms would close ranks and sabotage you, because you’re an obvious threat to their power.

It doesn’t mean that democracy is a bad system, or that it would never work. Although plenty of cogent and well lettered people over the centuries have spilled boatloads of ink arguing it was “unnatural” (goes against human nature) or “naive” (it might be nice, but the people can’t be trusted). But it still happened. It just took a while to get there.

I’m a bit of a gradualist in that respect, I admit. But that’s another topic.

That’s why only stoners, children and idiots idolise Communism.

Says the person so smart they capitalize the word communism.

Anyone who supports the idea of communism isn’t very intelligent to begin with.

Good job projecting there… I award you ten out of ten PragerU coins for that one.

dislike Isreal people because thier allegiances lay the opposite to the United States.

Oh, it has nothing to do with the fact that Israel is a genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist state?

Hamas is not the palestinian people. Israel’s government is not the Israeli people.

You should not support Hamas or The Israeli government regardless of whi h side did what.

The comment you’re replying to was specific about the difference between the people and the organisations in control of their states so I think you should too.

You should not support Hamas

So who else is there to support? Who else is willing to fight back against the genocidal Israeli regime? Gi Joe, maybe? The starship Enterprise?

How many of the Palestinians fighting for Hamas actually gives a damn what Hamas stands for? Half? A quarter? Ten percent, maybe? I don’t know… but I can tell you this - all of them know, far better than you ever could, what Israel stands for. They have seen it for themselves for the last half-a-century. It was no different than all the Vietnamese people who fought with the Viet Cong - and the liberal hand-wringing over the “evil” Viet Cong sounded exactly the same then as yours do now.

This is what you “enlightened centrists” don’t seem to understand… when a genocidal enemy is giving you no other option but to resist using all means available, you don’t get to wait around for a political organisation that soothes all your moral hackles - you either join the people handing out AKs or you sit on the sidelines and wait for the mass-murder to claim you, too.

You think your “both-side-ism” is new? It’s not… it’s been the exact same bullcrap that has been used to smear all anti-colonialist warfare since the start of colonialism.

The fact that a cause is just does not make all of its participants good.

Hamas is a dictatorship, they have not allowed an election in near 20 years, and they do not hesitate to endanger the people of palestine intentionally to further their cause. You can condemn the Israeli government and their actions while also condemning hamas, it’s not a fucking sport where you pick sides and cheer for a team.

But that’s a tangent. You did that to the person before me too, just picking out a small section of a comment and responding to that as though everything else said wasn’t there.

I acknowledge the horrific things comitted by Israel towards palestine and palestinians. But i’m sorry, i find it a bit too hard a pill to swallow to cheer the other force intent on genocide launching rockets indiscriminately into civilians. Just as horrific a thought as cheering the IDF levelling another apartment building, no?

Do you think that if Hamas were to win that you would feel good supporting the genocide that would follow?

You’re jist buying into a political bandwagon. Support condemning the idfs actions and sanctions on israel for stolen land. But dont fucking cheer mindless violence. And its ok to acknowledge that everything isnt black and white. Somebody telling you not to support hamas isnt telling you that the people of palestine deserve death and misery.

The fact that a cause is just does not make all of its participants good.

Nobody said Hamas was any good. If there was anything good about them, Israel would not have funded them back in the late 80s.

while also condemning hamas

Again… who else is there that is willing to fight Israel? Superman? Captain Planet? You?

Get this through your head, liberal - people undergoing brutal colonization does not have the luxury of adhering to your limp-wristed armchair pearl-clutching. If you are going to condemn them for resisting, you might just as well take off your mask and join the pro-colonialism side - you’re not all that far removed from them ideologically, anyway.

tankie.

If you don’t understand the meaning of certain words it might be a good idea to not use them, no?

Ugly, Dumb, Tankie scum.

Hold on while I whip out the world’s smallest violin for you, fascist.

Like a school yard kid getting called out: “You’re the fascist”

Cry more tankie scum. Fascist supporting dipshit.

Anyone who supports the idea of communism isn’t very intelligent

This isn’t fair. Anybody who can read through “das Kapital” must not only be very persistent and have endurance, no they also have to be fairly intelligent. I am surprised by the number of people who claim to have read “das Kapital” it has 4 VOLUMES ! 4 you can die if your bookshelf doesn’t hold and these 4 volumes fall on you.

Being a communist is just a function of your social class in society. If you are a laborer or poor you are naturally going to seek to pursue your interests for example you do not want to labor and have all the value you create go to the owners. You want to have a bigger share of the outcome of your labor. Communism is the consequence of this. Just like the royals and aristocrats and the captains of industry have the conservative ideology to further their interest so do the poor have communism. Neither conservatism nor communism make you smart or dumb. All it is is people pursuing their interest based on what position in society they hold. Both are ok. And none are dumb. It is inherently intelligent to pursue your own interest together with others who share that interest.

Edit: I am not getting into the support of any regimes or factions of wars as that is a can of worms i have no appetite for. 😅

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other ^rules

Kick tankies out of 196(lemmy.blahaj.zone)

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