Probably not too unpopular here.
Standing waiting for the bus in my city with decent transit and I have 2 trucks rev their engines loudly past me, another one letting just clouds of pollution, watching people driving who aren’t paying attention and several people blowing cutting last second through a light. All in just 3 minutes by a small corner with light traffic.
Made me think how cars are inherently selfish. People don’t want to be around others (the fear aspect), so they drive their own bubble around. In addition to that, some go out of their way to make their cars even worse to people outside of them.
No wonder we can’t move away from them. They are a definition of our own culture
I think calling it a culture of fear and selfishness is a pretty significant disservice to the reality of how car companies bought and dismantled public transit.
It was stolen from us, we didn’t reject it.
That’s definitely a big part, but it’s both. Like white flight out of cities and insisting on a detached suburban home, the other part of the story is that cars represent “social worth” for many in North America.
It’s why car people become so angrily defensive, and fight even modest changes. Cars aren’t just functional. They represent a cherished value system. Their worth as a person is tied up with their car.
That said, just like diamond rings and smoking, even this weird cultural norm was bought by industry advertising. We’re social apes, who do things to feel important and valued, even when it otherwise makes no sense.
You literally can’t commute in the US without a car. There aren’t any sidewalks and everything is so spread out it would take a full day to get groceries by bike.
I live in Denver. Transit is decent. The light rail can be a faster commute during rush hour. Plenty of regional buses to go hiking and skiing. Under 10 min walk to multiple grocery stores. Regional bike path network span multiple cities.
It’s not perfect, but I’ve been car free for over two years with very little issue.
Edit, to add to this: It’s more convenient for me to take the train to the airport or the bus to the slopes. Some ski resorts will charge more for daily parking then a round-trip bus ticket. And driving to the ski resorts is a traffic nightmare, much rather just sit on the bus and not worry about it.
Agreed that it’s doable in a number of areas. I’m in the suburbs where that’s harder, though I happen to be near a grocery store at least.
I moved from the suburbs to the city. I sacrificed a bit of living space and have higher rent. But the increased rent is offset by the lack of car payments, insurance, etc.
Everyone’s situation is different and not everyone has the flexibility to move. But there are many cities in the US that are affordable and have decent transit. Just depends on what you value.
What if you work in Denver and live in Firestone?
Obviously there are already public transit offerings in urban areas
I would move to somewhere closer? Even when I regularly drove I would move, take a different job, etc instead of dealing with a long commute. To me it’s just not worth it.
You say obviously but the original thread was started by someone who made a blanket statement about the US. There are millions of people in the US who commute without a car. I was curious and looked up some data: https://data.census.gov/table/ACSST1Y2018.S0801?q=S0801:+COMMUTING+CHARACTERISTICS+BY+SEX&hidePreview=true
- 85.3% commute by car
- 9.3% commute by other means
- the rest WFH
I would even argue that some of that 85% could switch to transit with very little effort. But as the OP stated, I think there is a cultural aversion to transit in the US. So there’s some of that 85% who could use transit but choose not to.
Only in cities. And if you ever want to explore outside the city, good luck.
Try cycling on a road with big trucks passing you at 90kph every three seconds. You will quickly learn to stay inside.
I live in the midwest and that is fairly accurate for the most part. But when I travel to cities I favor public transportation where I can. I do know that only works becsuse I am staying in downtown areas where they haven’t killed the public transportation yet, but there are examples that it still works and could be expanded if we decided to do so.
I also think most people haven’t tried and would be pleasantly surprised if they did. Even in the US, almost half of all trips are bikable or walkable distances. It doesn’t have to replace your main commute, just some of your trips.
We’ve all met those people who get in their car to drive two blocks instead of walking, even in good weather. Cars are so dominant that there’s a lack of imagination around using anything except cars.
And it’s our selfish culture that allows that to continue to be the standard. For example in my home state Amtrak is trying to to provide inter city service, and the governor said that “they don’t want it”. The sad part is most of the citizens agree. That is the culture of selfishness.
I don’t think it can be completely blamed on culture or simply “selfishness”. There is a group of powerful lobbyists that are influencing policy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_lobby
There are absolutely people who love their cars, and/or are assholes, but that isn’t the only reason it isn’t a priority. There is a big cost associated with any infrastructure project and the US is a relatively large country to cover. Also people from rural areas have no idea what “good” looks like in terms of mass transit.
I can agree with that. Although I do think those lobbyists are mostly successful because people are perfectly content to continue driving. I’m happy that big transit projects are being funded now. They’re always expensive, they always go over cost and over time, but when they’re finished people never think about that. Look at the chunnel
America’s love affair with cars is tied to independence.
A car means you can travel anywhere in the contiguous 48 states — vacation, visit friends and family. It also means you can look for work and get a job in a wider area than relying on just living near work. This means better pay, and access to cheaper housing. A vehicle also helps to haul goods meaning it’s easier to become an independent contractor.
Except in most other countries they have access to the same amount of independence, but don’t need a car to do the same thing.
A train only takes you to so many train stops. A car can take you anywhere the roads can take you, and more of you drive around off road.
This why public transit systems generally include buses. I will concede no-one uses buses for off-roading, but I would guess 90% of Americans do not drive their car off-road more than once or twice a year total, so I fail to see why that would be particularly relevant for a mass-market appeal.
But then it has to be asked - are things so spread out because of the car? Could things have been more convenient and close by if we didn’t rely so heavily on the car? Would shopping centers like target and Walmart choose to be 5 miles outside of town if people didn’t have cars, or would they opt to be closer to where the people are, walkable and convenient.
That’s my point, that cars have made us more independent maybe, but at the sacrifice of our own convenience and community.
The only reason it feels like independence is because people are trapped living on suburbs without any public transit. I have never lived on the suburbs, only in city centers with multiple alternatives to transportation (started to ride the bus alone at 10yo), but the couple of times visiting family on the suburbs I felt trapped waiting for someone who drive me anywhere.
eh, I disagree. a personal vehicle can (generally doesnt because traffic is a thing) provide a sense of freedom. there’s a certain romantic appeal to having your own vehicle and there’s certainly freedom in an open road - if you ignore the fact you’re roped into buying fuel and general maintenance for said vehicle. the only way I can see fear being a factor would be the “can I afford the next major expense”.
mass transit is more efficient, cant really argue against that, but it’s in no way individualized or even customizable in any way at a personal level. you also have to base your entire schedule around the bus/train and then when it doesnt show up on time (or show up at all) you’re basically fucked. a personal vehicle has none of those failings. as a matter of fact, in many places in America you’re required to own your own vehicle because the cities are few and far between… existing without owning a vehicle is akin to being stranded on a deserted island - you’re cut off from the rest of the world. most folks dont like being physically cut off from society - preventing it isnt selfishness, it’s being prepared
I love my car and I’m not ashamed of it. It’s true, I don’t want to be on a train or in a bus with you (or any other stranger) but I don’t think fear is the right word for that. Sometimes there are people on mass transit who do seem like they might be dangerous, but usually everyone is clearly harmless and it’s still unpleasant for me to be around them.
I used to think this dislike of being physically close to other people was a human universal but apparently it isn’t. The best analogy I can come up with for someone who doesn’t share it is that people are like an annoying noise. The more people there are and the closer they are to me, the louder that noise is. Being in a crowded train or bus is like standing near an ambulance with its siren on. It’s not scary, and it’s not unbearable. I could stand next to that ambulance if I needed to, and sometimes I do. It upsets me, I can deal with being upset, but I’m willing to spend a lot of money (and to pollute the environment) in order to avoid it.
(Even if I always had the entire train or bus to myself, I would still prefer to drive because taking mass transit is usually much slower than driving. But that’s a separate issue…)
I’m going to use the “E” word - entitlement. I feel entitled to live the way that I do, because of how important avoiding physical proximity to strangers is for me. I suspect that you consider me to be selfish because being near strangers isn’t a big deal for you, not because it is but you do it anyway (or because you make some other, equally large sacrifice).
(Plus, I’m a vegetarian so I have the reassurance that compared to me, everyone who eats meat is a monster. Since I’m pretty much a saint already, I can permit myself a little bit of sin…)
