I’m sorry, why the fuck aren’t these street legal in more than half of the states? The article says something about safety, but these are street legal all over Europe where we have stronger safety regulations.
Also there’s something I can’t put my finger on about the journalist choosing a hero image of the van losing its cargo.
Probably because it’s not safe to drive them around giant pickups who can’t see over their hoods
Europe and Japan all have freight trucks driving around, so I don’t buy that. The fact that many states won’t allow these is American truck manufacturing protectionism, nothing more. It’s the same reason you can only get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck from Ford, Chevy, or Ram (chicken tax).
Cab over engine freight trucks with excellent visibility, not jacked up chevys where your view of the ground starts 20 feet in front of you
Just noting as a reference these trucks are 11ft long, a Miata is roughly 20% longer at 13ft.
Smart cars had to pass US crash test standards and have the appropriate safety equipment. The kei trucks that you can currently import and use are 25+ years old and wouldn’t have even passed US standards back then. Your legs are the crumple zone in these things.
I assume that new ones would have a chance, but it’d be expensive for a manufacturer to modify and certify for the US market. Small cars haven’t sold well here, and the profit margins are slim.
Maybe with the recent size and price increases in autos here, well see some movement. I’d love a modern Honda kei to go with my element.
I’m sorry, their problem is that the massive trucks are somehow in danger because they weren’t designed to handle being hit by a vehicle less than half its size?
What a ridiculous statement.
Ya. Everything’s expensive, so people buy the cheapest thing [with four wheels]. I don’t want folks on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum to think these are a safe option.
If(?) a ‘90s Honda sedan is safer but the Kei is new and looks cute, for the same price many will choose the less safe option.
Eight Californians die on our roads every day here and I can’t wait for some solutions. I really do empathize with everyone you readers care about (no oil companies, no just-for-funsies-truck manufacturers) - I hate the thought of crumpled and crushed human bodies.
Speed restrictions.
Kei trucks were designed for use in dense Japanese cities, which is why they also work in European cities. They are nimble but have a low top speed. You’re not going 70 mph around a street corner for instance.
It would work in places like NYC for the same reasons, but remember that most of the USA is suburban or rural. You need vehicles that are capable of going fast if you’re going to get on a highway.
A possible workaround is to have a separate class for these, like mopeds or scooters, which are road legal but are not highway legal.
That work around is what most states that explicitly legalized kei trucks have done, they can’t enter roads over 55mph. It’s a reasonable concession, you probably don’t want to take one over 50mph anyway.
Most places in the US are connected by 55 mph roads. I’d be hard-pressed to get anywhere but the city center in most places I’ve lived if I couldn’t use those roads.
Farm equipment and bikes use those roads all the time, and they go even slower, so I don’t think being able to keep up with traffic is a valid concern.
In Illinois, at least, your motorcycle has to be 150cc to ride on the interstate. A Chinese GY6 scooter might be able to do 50MPH with a tailwind. You’d get killed on the interstate on one of those, yet, fully legal to do it.
You’d get killed on the interstate on one of those,
You guys in Illinois are crazy though. I learned very quickly how much that 55 MPH limit is a guideline and not a hard limit.
They’re not really safe. They are generally front heavy, so there is a risk of rolling forward, no crumple zone safety stuff, more often than not the front suspension is under the seat and if that breaks it would shoot up into the cabin, and on top of everything they are pretty slow. They have more in common with an off road Polaris than a traditional truck, which is to be expected because they were mostly designed to be farm trucks. I’d much rather be in an older s10 than a kei truck in the event of a crash (and s10’s aren’t very safe). I think I lot of why they are so popular these days is because there aren’t really any light trucks anymore, and these are an alternative.
I’d still own one if they were just banned on highways. The risk is probably pretty low on low speed city streets, where these would be most useful.
I actually considered it when I last looked for a new vehicle but besides being too expensive for what they are ($10k for a 90s cheap truck) they made a lot of compromises on them. For instance, on most the struts and springs are right under the seats, so if that breaks it would come right up into your legs. If the truck is rusty and going over bumps, that is a non zero possibility.
We should take a step back: why do we need all those safety standards in the first place? The reason is that we have such gigantic vehicles in the first place, and smaller ones simply cannot be safe on the same road. Level that all down and suddenly Kei cars are as safe as they need to be.
Not really. I compared it to an older Chevy s10 for a reason. Those were relatively small trucks that, while not always the most reliable, are still a pretty decent option for most people. Kei trucks are a smidge smaller, but are better on gas and frankly less safe. I don’t think this is a “get rid of bigger vehicles and this goes away” but of a “Kei trucks aren’t really any safer than an off-road golf cart and current regulations allows them on the road”. We need the safety regulations so less people die on Auto accidents, and kei trucks don’t really have to comply with even the basic ones.
Traditionally they’ve been banned because they don’t do well in crash testing, as they don’t have crumple zones or airbags. Here’s some testing from 2010 by the insurance industry arguing that they shouldn’t be on highways.
They don’t meet the us safety standards. It could mean a lot of things like lacking 5mph bumpers, air bags, abs, etc.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
At just 31MPH a Kei truck gets absolutely clobbered in front offset and side impact safety tests, even against small vehicles like Smart Cars and the old (small) Ford Rangers. Like don’t bother calling an ambulance just the morgue kind of clobbered.
Kei trucks are neat vehicles and I’d like to have one but scientific testing shows that they are not safe.
yet people are killed / injured on european road at much smaller rate than in the US. the best US state is less safe than even the worst canadian province (and canada isnt even good). the US treats its roads like a car crash derby so it needs “higher standards”, but that approach is provably terrible. not only vehicules are huge and wasteful, but the roads remain horribly unsafe as well.
Where exactly are these legal in Europe? I’ve never seen one, we have small-ish trucks (that get bigger every iteration) but not this tiny, that I know of. Pretty sure they’re not legal in my country at least.
in Europe?
but not this tiny,
You don’t know the Ape? It’s really everywhere in Europe.
No I didn’t, they might be everywhere but they aren’t very common (maybe in Italy…). I’ve seen the other small plagio truck (because that Ape is not a truck, barely a bit more than a scooter), but only a handful and it’s been like ten years since the last I saw, and they aren’t as small as these kei trucks (these are as long as a fiat 500).
You don’t know the Ape? It’s really everywhere in Europe.
I haven’t seen those in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany except maybe once in 5 years. Further, it’s seems not comparable. In Netherlands it likely wouldn’t be considered a car. It likely would fall under the max 45 kmh regulations.
Different crash standards in US and Europe. Most companies don’t even bother getting cars tested (designed?) in both because the market demands are so different.
European road safety regulations are significantly weaker than those in the US and Canada.
Pretty sure that’s not the case, had a little Google and it seems like I’m right, but I’m open to being corrected if I’m wrong or misunderstanding what you mean. Here’s evidence to support my claim:
https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1007/s12544-014-0131-7
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518300034
I’ve lived in several European countries and also worked in compliance departments for auto manufacturers. You have zero clue what you’re talking about.
We desperately need smaller vehicles to counter the behemoth light trucks that are in the road today. Everything about these kei truck bans just scream corruption and incompetence from politicians to domestic auto manufacturers.
“Light” trucks. A real light truck is something like the Toyota Hilux up through the 5th or 6th generation.
Americans just love being the biggest on the road. Bigger is better in their minds. Maybe we put an extra tax on very large vehicles.
We need to require special licenses for those behemoths.
I’d prefer they get banned entirely because there’s really no practical use for them that isn’t solved by some other commercial vehicle.
It’s not only Americans though. French car makers also sell big SUVs to everyone because it’s very important to have the biggest car ever when you bring back a small bag of groceries, or when you desperately need to be on top of the world in the traffic jams. I see those morons every day and it saddens me.
damn, i would have expected the french to have better taste in their vehicles
The other day an edible and an aliexpress misadventure really got me wondering “Why shouldn’t I have an electric cargo trike”?
It’s the biggest tricycle I can find!
Haha because it’s from aliexpress. I think it’s a great idea though. You can haul things. Don’t need roads. Looks cool. Good for the environment
I’d love to see a comeback of vehicles like 1980s Toyota and Mazda pickups. Just a bit taller than sedans, good sized bed. I never understood the popularity of trucks that almost need a mini ladder to get into when they’re being used strictly in an urban or suburban setting.
Many US states have laws preventing people from registering these kei class trucks.
For example, https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/how-register-imported-vehicle
On that page
KEI-Class vehicles cannot be registered or titled in New York State. (Authority: Section 400-a of NYS VTL)
Is there a reason for the ban related to how the car is built or designed, or is it politics?
They stopped making Honda Fits (in North America) because there was no demand.
I would love a Kei truck, but I don’t live in a state where you can legally have one. That said I really think that if a Japanese manufacturer brought a barebones electric Kei to the American market they could make a killing because “people who want a truck but not a massive truck” is a totally unserved market segment.
Kei trucks have the same, if not slightly bigger/smaller, bed size as a modern F-150. But they’re basically the size of Honda Fits.
I’ve wanted one since I worked for USPS and learned to drive on the right side of a vehicle. My state does allow you to register them and drive them on the road, but alas, I cannot afford one. :(
Kei trucks only can carry like 800 pounds. I run a bar and regularly take my pickup truck, a 2500, to its bed capacity of roughly 3000 lbs. I’ve had it sitting low just in empties before. A Kei truck can’t even haul my motorcycle if it breaks down. Now someone who’s a full time contractor, would call that thing useless, a farmer might buy one instead of a John Deere gator or side by side. It’d be suitable for golf course maintenance.
Yeah but most people don’t know what their bed capacity is and they never test it. Maybe something like the old Ranger is the optimal size truck for the average person, but our politicians wrote environmental standards which somehow incentivize making the biggest vehicles that can possibly fit on the road instead of making reasonably sized vehicles but with more efficient engines.
Yep, I’m a contractor, I would absolutely only own one to use for work if I had a big property, and it’d be groundskeeping. Just FYI though, Kei trucks are used as contractor/work trucks in Japan, as are Kei vans.
But your average person’s Home Depot trip isn’t going to be close to what a contractor would use. And, just like what currently happens, if your vehicle can’t handle an outlying circumstance, you either rent one that can or have the materials delivered.
So beyond work applications, and towing which most people don’t need the size vehicle they have for what they’re towing, modern pickup trucks are oversized and unnecessary for probably 95% of people.
Ford and Hyundai have tried to bring service to that market with the Maverick and Santa Cruz, respectively. My folks have one and love it, but I’ve found most people still complain because they “don’t need that big if a truck” but then you mention towing/hauling capacity and they say “well why can’t it just tow something small like an F150 does? I’m not trying to get a dually but if I didn’t want to do X then I’d just get a car!” I suspect most people’s “truck needs” would be accommodated but fomo and marketing leads buyers astray even when they already know what they want. Or they’re fickle and just need something to complain about.
Ford and Hyundai have tried to bring service to that market with the Maverick and Santa Cruz
They didn’t try very hard. The Maverick doesn’t have a single cab or full size bed option and the santa cruz looks like a SUV with 1/4 of the back chopped off.
Here’s a comparison of a 2008 Ranger vs. a 2022 Maverick to show what I mean better. They’re roughly the same size but you lose so much with the Maverick.
2008 RANGER Height 67.7 in. Length 203.6 in. Width 69.4 in. Wheelbase 125.9 in.
2022 MAVERICK Height 68.7 in. Length 199.7 in. Width 72.6 in. Wheelbase 121.1 in.
the 2008 ranger is such a nice truck. Maverick is just a minivan with an open trunk. Might as well just get a real minivan.
I drove a 99 Ranger into the ground. It was absolutely fine in every way that truck people care about. Give us back our small trucks!
The Ranger/B2000, S-10, and first Tacoma were really the sweet spot for compact pickup trucks but you won’t get them back, because all of them got killed by CAFE.
What do you find people want to tow? I’m often at a loss when people bring this up because I’ve never once had a moment in my life where I was disappointed by the lack of towing capacity of my small car
Note that Americans basically all drive automatic transmissions, those have a thing called a torque converter. Unless that part is actively cooled it’s going to overheat when asked to do high-torque stuff over prolonged durations and as that active cooling needs space and weight it generally only comes with truck-sized vehicles.
In short: The reason Americans don’t haul caravans and horses and boats with cars is because they can’t drive stick.
Been to Japan lately and can share some photos. There are even Kei Fire Trucks, for the many small roads with wooden houses and shrines etc.
And then there are hundreds of different kei truck and van types for all purposes, even concrete mixers.
Also, private houses in cities are often small and space-saving and so are the cars. A sensible use of public space – and cars only park on private property or rented parking spaces.
Neither the fire truck nor the concrete truck are Kei class vehicles.
They are small diesel trucks, yes, but Kei literally means ‘light’ and have strict weight limits on both the weight of the vehicle and how much load they can carry.
Well, those are also not vehicles that the average citizen buys. They’re specialized for their purpose, the fire truck needs to transport a decent amount of water and 4-5 people, and concrete is heavy stuff. But in a certain way they follow the same design philosophy.
WHAT IS THE WHITE HONDA?
I’ve wanted an upgrade to my element but this looks adorbs and 4 door.
I guess the size has something to do with the size of Japanese roads and back alley space?
Yes in some neighborhoods and villages the roads are so narrow that they can practically only be driven on by Kei cars.
Japan as an Island has limited space available for natural reasons, plus large parts of the country are mountain area. So the old cities have been built in plains and reached high density. Building is strictly regulated.
And that has also grown into the culture. The Japanese sense for efficiency is legendary and so you simply don’t waste space. And in general, you don’t show off with oversized cars. Understatement is part of the general habitus. Shintoism and Buddhism have deep roots and that certainly plays a role too.
I’ve wanted one of these for decades but the options are pay out the ass for import fees or buy a 30 year old model, neither fee great. Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us driving massive trucks and SUVs over realist vehicles
