I’m feeling so uneasy with everything I’ve been seeing. I keep thinking about what we will be this time next year, and if shit hits the fan, what is your plan? I’m queer and was politically active in 2020, so I would potentially be considered a political enemy.
The only blueprint I can think of is what you do in an active shooter situation; Flee, Hide, Fight.
I know there’s that romantic notion of “don’t be a coward, get out and protest”, but I remember the brutality of the 2020 protests firsthand, and even then I thought “thank god I’m going toe to toe with the CPD and not the CCP”. Next time is going to be different. The president now has authority to send drone strikes. Protests and riots don’t stand a chance agains missiles and live rounds.
Flee- I have an Uncle in Montreal who my family could potentially use as a way to at least temporarily escape the chaos. The hope I’d have is that Canada and other countries would accept American refugees, however that’s not a guarantee.
Hide- If borders are closed, lay low and move away from major cities if possible. If civil war breaks out, try to get away from the violence even if you think your side will win. Todays losers may be tomorrows victors.
Fight- If cellular data/ social media algorithms can keep track of you, and surveillance can make sure there’s no movement, this would be the last resort of desperation. I guess if possible try to either find a group for safety in numbers, or conversely go guerrilla as groups of resistance would make easy targets.
Sorry my mind is running and I’m getting scared.
“On Tyranny” has some great guidance on this, as well as some guidance on how to do what you can to help put the brakes on it happening.
TL;DR there’s quite a lot more, but stay off the internet, get used to making small talk, making eye contact. Know who’s in your community physically and who has your back. Renew your passport, make friends in other countries if you can. Make friends. Stay off the internet.
Curious: Why “stay off the internet” ? It’s mentioned twice, so I’m assuming for a good reason.
Is that a mental health thing or a keep from being profiled/targeted thing?
It is soo easy to forget about just how much identifying metadata you leave on the internet just by reading stuff.
You know the cookie banners you see? Those that claim to let you opt out from being tracked by advertisers?
Yeah, those are just the overt tracking mechanism, tracking pixels are far far more insidious.
Lets backtrack a bit, back when Facebook started getting big, companies started embedded Like buttons on their webpages, cool right? You could just click the Like button and it would help you post a link to your Facebook feed to the page you were visiting.
Seems fine, right? What’s the issue?
It would be fine if the image of the Like button was stored on the local web server hosting the rest of the site.
But it isn’t.
It is stored on Facebook’s servers, it is stored in a way that every single Like button has their own ID, so every time you load up your favourite website about abandoned radiation experiment sites it makes your browser send a request to Facebook’s servers as well and depending on how the request is sent they can at minimum log that your IP address loaded the Like button with the ID number X, the ID number X is tied to the specific webpage you visited.
Then you go and do some research on impotense and how to cure it, the pages you read all have Like buttons as above, but with their own ID numbers, Facebook now knows at a minimum that you are a man who is interested in science, technology, society and modern history, you may also suffer from impotense.
Well, you keep browsing the web and read local news, well the Like button is also there, and with the ID number Facebook can add an area of interest to your profile.
It keeps going like this, but with one huge important change, people are starting getting warey of the Like buttons and Facebook in general, so they simply remove the button, while introducing the tracking pixel, a 1px*1px transparent picture, it works like how the Like button loads, and keeps generating data for Facebook.
Facebook is not alone in this, I just used them as an example.
You can read more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_pixel
This is also not even getting into browser fingerprinting.
Oh, yeah. I’m aware of all that. Good info, though.
I meant for the purposes of what moz was saying from that “On Tyranny” TL;DR guidance. Like, should I just assume that metadata is going to be immediately used against me to determine if i’m an “undesirable” ?
May have answered my own question there lol
It’s really hard to make friends in other countries without the internet. Gonna have to go back to ARPANET.
He didn’t actually say stay off the internet; that was my oversimplified retelling. A little more complete but still oversimplified version would be: Be careful and don’t share more than what you think is safe to share, and try to focus on the real world as much as you can. The real world doesn’t have mass surveillance in quite such a prepackaged and straightforward fashion, and it is where all the real outcomes good or bad will eventually take place anyway, so prioritize it as much as you can.
Western Europe is pretty decent if you can move and get a job here.
Europe, who is already seeing far right insurgencies due to a few immigrants? Yeah, good idea. And if Trump wins you can basically say goodbye to any sort of future that isn’t a hellscape. We’re already far behind our dues on climate change and this will be the final nail in the coffin.
Yup. That is the problem.
Fascism is on the rise around the world. And the countries that have stood firm in the face of it? They are juicy targets for strongman leaders needing an easy win.
At the risk of showing my indoctrinated “american excellence” ass… the US is really a big factor in global security. Because (unless you are on our side) we have a ridiculously large and over funded military and love proxy wars.
Europe, who is already seeing far right insurgencies due to a few immigrants?
A few immigrants ? Remember that Europe got a whole bunch of refugees from Ukraine to look after.
And the USA is huge compared to Europe, especially to some small countries in Europe like Belgium, Holland.
The problem of the rise of far-right is more complex.
The only solace to be had is that the pendulum eventually swings back. But there’s going to be a lot of fuckin misery before that happens.
By that time we’ll see massive streams of climate refugees, water shortages, crop failures, etc.
I’d like to second that. When it comes to “far-right boiling point” several countries in Europe look like a breeze compared to Project 2025 minded US. Far right is on the rise in Western-Europe but things are not so bad yet. Not sure about the specific gay friendliness per country but countries like Germany (except the East and part of the South), Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Holland, Belgium, France could be interesting to read more about. Portugal actually had its borders wide open for some time for immigrants to work and live there but they now have some (but not so bad?) restrictions for non-EU citizens.
France is 2 days away from an election which will see the Far Right grab the most seats ever in Parliament, the only question (hope really) is “will they get absolute majority or not”.
Holland fell not so long ago.
Belgium kinda holds through “sacred union” that vows to never sign an alliance with it, but at cities level it’s too late.
And Hungary is deep into it with Orban since a while now. Hungary which turn it is to lead the European Parliament (a rotating position). First political act? Go shake hands with Putin.
It’s gonna get complicated over here.
To me there is a significant difference between a possible US dictatorship a la Project 2025 and the Western Europe where the far right is in some governments but certainly not close to a dictatorship (Things are different in the East of Europe, for example in Hungary). And there’s more differences, compare worker unions in the US versus Europe. And compare gun ownership in the US versus Europe. Same for death penalty. I consider the EU future a breeze compared to the US future.
Isn’t this a kind of positive feedback circle though? Right-wing wins, left-wing people move and leave the country, leaving more and more right-wing people left. Then obviously right wing wins again next election, more left-wing people leave and so on and so on.
This can also happen with just people moving from right-wing states to left-wing states. I suspect this is a contributing factor to the increasing split in american politics as people tend to stay where their politics align and leave where it doesn’t.
This doesn’t seem sustainable? Unless the states split into more independent nations that don’t have to align on federal politics.
I’d like to try to assuage your fears regarding a protest meeting missiles or drone strikes. Yes, the President can order drone strikes with impunity. It’s been that way since the first use of drones, early as the Obama era (maybe earlier, but I was a bit young then).
However, this does not apply to US soil. One of the benefits of state sovereignty is that federal armed forces can’t operate on US soil. National guard gets involved, at the governor’s request, but they don’t have missiles or drones. Police are barbaric, but they also don’t have missiles or drones.
So I don’t think we’d see much of an escalation in terms of weapons of violence with regards to protests when compared to 2020.
If he declares it an official act, then it’s not illegal. Drone strikes are pretty official.
SCOTUS fucked up super-sized
He can order it all he wants, but that doesn’t mean any branch of the military has to actually carry out an obviously illegal order. All it means is that he theoretically “can’t” get prosecuted for trying.
The people carrying out those acts are also not legally immune like the president is.
One of the biggest factors is that the courts can’t get testimony from members of the executive branch of government, meaning if he does something insanely evil, as long as only his admin that knows anything about it, he can’t be effectively prosecuted. It’s pretty fucking terrible.
Soldiers swear an oath to the Constitution to not commit illegal orders, regardless of who orders them.
The issue is that the president cant issue illegal orders anymore. Since hes the commander in chief of the military, his orders are an “official act,” i.e constitutional.
The supreme court has said that the president can order military executions of anyone at all and the military can no longer legally refuse. The above is constitutional, because the people who decide what is constitutional said it is.
The heroic military that are totally going to stand up for what is right regardless of their orders… sat with their thumbs up their asses waiting to see how Jan 6 would shake out when it was painfully obvious that the outgoing POTUS had declared war on the US Government and was attempting to lynch Congress and the VPOTUS
The Army is gonna follow orders faster than the pioneers of NASA did in the 1940s.
Obviously illegal order
Ahh of course, america has never once committed a war crime
This is not the protection that you think it is.
One of the elements of the Trump victory plan is for them to replace pivotal positions in civil and military services with sycophantic yes-men who are GREAT at not questioning orders - or, are of the same psychopathic stripe as they are, and are actually enthusiastic about executing such orders for one reason or another.
Not to mention: go into any US military mess hall, anywhere. What’s on the TV? (Here’s a hint: it’s not MSNBC, CBS, or CNN).
SCOTUS fucked up super-sized
SCOTUS (or at least 6 of 'em) knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyway. On purpose.
Haven’t been following the news, have we? What you said was mostly true a week ago. Now, NO ONE has legal protection under U.S. law against crime committed by an American president.
While this may be true, and a drone strike may be ordered on US soil, the President will not be the one controlling the drone, not directly in command of that person. The UCMJ supercedes in the case.
Any “official order” of the president is lawful now. As commander in chief of the military, he can indeed “officially order” drone strikes on US soil. The soldier following that will be following a lawful order. The UCMJ will not apply.
However, this does not apply to US soil. One of the benefits of state sovereignty is that federal armed forces can’t operate on US soil
From the Project 2025 wiki page:
In November 2023, The Washington Post reported that deploying the military for domestic law enforcement under the Insurrection Act of 1807 would be an “immediate priority” upon a second Trump inauguration in 2025. That aspect of the plan was being led by Jeffrey Clark, a contributor to the project and a former official in the Trump Department of Justice (DOJ). Clark is a senior fellow at the Center for Renewing America, a Project 2025 partner. The plan reportedly includes directing the DOJ to pursue those considered by Trump as disloyal or a political adversary
I was unaware of “Project 2025”, interesting read! While that does contain multiple concerning ideas, this is far from a reliable manifesto. Additionally, ties have been drawn to the Trump campaign, but these are loose ties and appear primarily to be op-eds. Trump has also disavowed ties to this “publication”. Lastly, that “Washington Post report” is another one of those vague articles featuring “according to sources familiar”.
Whether that manifesto’s “reliable”, well, we’ll have to see. That recent immunity move by the SC is already a big step in the direction that Project 2025 wants to take the US in with their “unitary executive theory” bullshit – everything doesn’t hinge on Trump.
Far as Trump’s disavowals go, I’ll believe it when I see it – that man lies as easily as he breathes. I’ll be happily surprised if it does turn out he wasn’t lying, but that’s not going to be my default assumption. And it’s not like Project 2025 hinges on his enthusiastic support of the Project, just its goals – if Trump gets elected he is the one choosing which recommendations he’ll follow, and I don’t find it very believable that he wouldn’t be interested in eg. expanding executive power.
Lastly, that “Washington Post report” is another one of those vague articles featuring “according to sources familiar”.
That’s going to be what they publish every time the sources don’t want anyone to know it was them, but it’s not like the reporters don’t know their sources or don’t vet them –this “anonymous source bad” trope frankly reeks of the classic populist Lying press / Lügenpresse rhetoric. I really don’t understand how people think things should work if anonymous sources are bad
Clearly “the system” isn’t capable of handling the threat of right-wing extremism and something needs to be done, but anybody murking Trump would probably make things worse, not better. He’d become a conservative martyr, and they could point to his death and say “see, we told you they’re violent” and use it to deepen hatred and oppression. This is what happened after the failed assassination attempt on Robert Fico
National guard gets involved, at the governor’s request, but they don’t have missiles or drones.
The fuck they don’t.
After my active duty service I was in the NG for a while until I figured out it was a fuckin joke, but my NG unit was a Bradley unit which means 30mm cannon and TOW missiles. And that was almost 30 years ago.
The Air NG also flies just about every fighter out there and they sure as hell have missile racks on them.
The hope is that the Americans behind those war machines will be hesitant to fire on their countrymen but Kent State puts a shadow over that hope.
You should be scared but try not to feel hopeless that won’t help anyone. I’m honestly shocked at how little people have been freaking out. Especially the news media, I don’t see how a free press survives a second Trump administration. That’s what really concerns me the seeming apathy.
I’m hoping that come November the election will go well, and we won’t have to worry about it as much. (As well as possible given the choices)
My family and I are going to be overseas when the transition happens and if we might not return depending on what happens. We’re going to be visiting family in a country where my spouse qualifies for citizenship ship so I feek like that’s in our favor.
If shit goes south and it was just me, I would probably stay but I’ve got kids to worry about and I won’t feel bad for a second about keeping them safe.
We have decades of examples of people standing up for what is right or true.
Journalists get shit on because “fake news” or “they are just writing clickbait” and people actively shit on their livelihood. Activists get the shit beat out of them, are maimed for life, and often go to prison. And people post pictures on facebook where they have a background in solidarity before they take a new duck-face picture and overwrite it.
The purpose of journalists are to seek and speak truth on behalf of The People. When The People have made it clear they don’t give a shit and can’t be bothered to even read the article someone had to go into hiding for?
So why stand up and make yourself a target?
you guys have cried about your guns for two hundred years in case of this exact situation
Never underestimate dem/liberal gun ownership. We are just quiet about it and don’t make it our entire personality.
sure, but they’re in the minority, and i wouldn’t bet on even the majority to win against the national guard and their tanks
I can’t be the only one to roll my eyes at comments like this. Like in one respect I get it, we want to say we will fuck up the fascists. But on the flipside, what the fuck are you guys actually suggesting here?
Bear in mind per Propublica reporting that the right-wing extremist groups want to incite a race/Civil War. They hate the fact that there is such a stark contrast in violence between the left and right and it’s making them look TERRIBLE.
Bear in mind firearm manufacturers are actively trying to break into the leftist market to sell more guns. Pretty obvious.
Forgetting the evidence that guns for all intents don’t make you safer. We need to use our brains before bullets, lest we’ve all already lost.
I am still sure that the right has more. Like you might have 1 or 2. A lot of those nutjobs have 1 or 2 hundred.
The issue is military and police tend to side with fascists, and fascists know this so it’s a 3 way fight
I sure haven’t. That’s a deluded conservative thing… they say they need guns to defend from an overbearing government, then they’re the idiots who vote for freedom-infringing authoritarians. It also hasn’t made sense in decades at best, given that they’d be gravy seals fighting army or police with their handguns while the government has helicopters, grenades, night vision, comm systems (like, they think they’d have cell service in a civil war?) and so on. Maybe some organized group could pull off an Iraq or Afghanistan style resistance, but it seems unlikely.
I’ve dabbled in ham radio a bit, comms is something that at least some of the right are thinking about with these kinds of things, there’s more than a handful of right wing doomsday pepper lunatics in the ham radio circle, if you ever decide to listen in on CB radio chatter, there’s a good chance you’re gonna hear some lunatic ranting about conspiracy bullshit, I’m pretty sure I saw some pictures of guys at 1/6 with some baofengs (cheap Chinese ham radios, pretty much every ham has one or two kicking around)
I remember when I first started looking into ham radio, I was googling some stuff, clicking into a whole bunch of different results not paying too much attention to where I was, and I found one forum thread that was actually pretty informative until halfway down the thread someone said something really unhinged about race wars or something, and no one called him out about it and some even agreed with him, so I took a look at what site I was on and it was the stormfront forums. Nope I out of there really quick.
Also not the only experience I had like that, few of my hobbies and interests have significant overlap with the right wing lunatics fringe since I’m into some outdoors camping and survivalist type stuff, the algorithms try really hard to suck me into crazytown sometimes.
Honestly. I wish we had more leftest prepped stuff. The darknet hacker scene (privacy is a mixed bag) is decent IMHO, but as soon as you want to prepare for disasters (canning, homesteading, HAM radio, reloading, guns, etc) ALOT of the content and social media is a mix of ethno or Christian nationalism bunk.
We, the left, really should be interested in this stuff. This is how you provide mutual aid in disasters. How you help the marginalized avoid oppression and how you raise the cost of faciest take over.
Not America’s left. America’s left has wanted gun control.
That said, it’s not like the left leaning cities are hurting for guns. There is a reason the left wants gun control.
And the strong push against gun control isn’t a 200 hundred year old thing. It’s a 40-50 year old thing. The NRA used to be about responsible gun ownership, not saving up for the fallout wasteland.
Maybe I’m more of a moderate but I just want some gun control, like universal background checks and mandatory training.
Not really on board with other things though, for example: Banning certain models of guns is just stupid and ineffective: Ban one and there are probably at least half a dozen other functionally identical firearms they can be replaced with. It’s meaningless performative legislature.
Small arms like pistols, shotguns, rifles are great against a random meth head that breaks in to your home. But against a coordinated response by the government!? They have machine guns and drones and troops and bombs. And have been known to use them on civilians.
Civilians with guns against an actual military would never work, it’s just some fantasy those on the far right have.
It doesn’t seem like you’ve read much about insurgencies and rebel groups. It doesn’t actually take much firepower to inject enough chaos into the system that you cause issues with traditional militaries. One person with a rifle could keep a FOB alert and wasting resources for a couple of hours in Afghanistan. IEDs placed by individuals or small groups caused absolute terror in Iraq.
These types of things are unlikely to “win” a war. But if you make it costly enough, the other side will decide it’s not worth fighting. The point is not to engage in head-on combat, that’s suicide.
Or hell, look to the tactics of some of the rebels in the Revolutionary War or the Civil War.
Yes, I understand how an occupied enemy force is hard to dislodge. I actually was in the USMC for 8 years and was stuck in 29 Palms with nothing to do it in the middle of the desert but operation Mojave Viper over and over as groups cycled through. War in the middle east was hard because of ROI and a lower tolerance for collateral damage. You remove those and it’s not even a question. Just drop bombs and roll tanks.
I’ve also seen how we can take over a country or city in a matter of nights. I’ve seen buildings leveled because there was a singular shooter in them. If you roll APCs down a street with an armed patrol squad there isn’t much you can do. Sure you could make IDEs, setup daisy chains and such, that could take out a patrol for sure. But that just gets a bigger, more aggressive response that will not be so easily pushed back.
And let’s be clear, the middle east has been at war for generations upon generations, it’s part of their life at this point. Bill who hunts deer sometimes is not a battle hardened fighter. Hell, people who sign up for war, get training, then ramped up for deployment still freeze up in combat.
Also, civil war tactics don’t work anymore, hell,guerilla tactics barley work. We have drones, night vision, thermal, air support, satellite imagery. If the US military did actually attack it’s people, and members of the service actual did comply, it would be an extermination not a war.
To your point about one person looking out for a FOB. First, I don’t know how one person is covering every possible line of attack and approach vector, but that side. One drone or fly by could destroy that entire rebel FOB in second with not a damn thing you could do, with no warning. What is your defense against fighter jets or a blackhawk? Shoot small arms at it?
