32 points

casual drive-by meme;

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13 points

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61 points

I see a lot more vegan hate than vegans.

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-21 points
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They’re easy to hate - They’re weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who cares about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They’re basically furries for the non-internet crowd. Nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.

Edit: It’s possible my explanation of why vegans are disliked has touched a nerve. To clarify; I don’t think this, hell I eat vegan meals most of the time, but these are the qualities given to the Strawman Vegan that everyone onlines seems to love to hate. (I also quite like furries.)

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34 points

The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.

Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.

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8 points

Yikes. You know, vegans are targeted by the extremely wealthy & powerful meat & dairy industries who spend untold fortunes making the vegan lifestyle look as unappealing and “crazy” as possible?

I mean, I’m sure you’re galaxy brain is impervious to propaganda and everything, I’m just saying, you’re painting with an awfully broad brush.

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2 points

I think the cause has been tainted by the rampant propagandizing and demonization across all forms of media that the movement has been subjected to. You’re doing it now, even - what the hell even is an “extremist vegan”?

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16 points

I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.

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24 points

who cares about chickens

Most people. Anyone who isn’t a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan

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5 points
*

I think it’s funny how quickly the outspoken anti-vegan types deliver the “I actually think it’s ok to torture animals” completely unprompted

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4 points

I hate chickens. They’re loud, obnoxious, and they kill and eat each other. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to abuse them. I take good care of my chickens despite the fact that they’re assholes.

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39 points

No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.

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20 points

No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic “bacon” posts.

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11 points
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Of all the delicious meats to be obsessed about, redditbros went and picked one of the least appealing ones and decided to make it their entire personality 💀

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-6 points

The vast majority of people love bacon and bacon memes and jokes are part of the mainstream culture. Do you accommodate non-vegans? Why do you expect them to accommodate you?

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9 points

I wish that was true (and I’m not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they’re the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I’m doing the same to them).

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-2 points

I think that you will find that these anti-vegans are reacting to the behaviour of the extremist.

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0 points

Nah, as a vegan most people act pretty hateful towards us even when we don’t bring up the topic.

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0 points

Most people only ever hear anything from the extremists so you get painted with the same brush. I have friends who are vegans who are amazing people. I go out of my way to accommodate them. You are getting hate because of a very small group of fanatics who believe that they are absolutely morally superior and that that absolute moral superiority justified doing and saying anything to anyone who doesn’t agree with them in an attempt to shame, harass, and intimidate them into doing what they are told.

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4 points

The community of non-vegans is a lot bigger than that of the vegans. So vegans do something that gets a reaction, you are much more likely to hear that reaction than the original thing.

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48 points

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

I had a look at the community yesterday, every post bar one was about vegan cat food for the last week. They’re not taking this well at all.

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34 points

I just had a look myself after your comment and cannot confirm your claim at all. There are, understandably, quite a few posts about this debacle and the future of their sub but more than half is stuff related to veganism not related to cats.

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-14 points
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Cats can thrive on vegan diets perfectly well. Mine is still with me since like 4 years and didn’t eat a single animal protein in that time…

It’s called being a responsible human and minimizing suffering.

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5 points

Four years isn’t that long, cats can live up to twenty years.

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-25 points

I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism. Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say. They also have the easier side to argue.

Im not a vegan but I’m not talking shit to a vegan for fear of getting dragged into a veganism debate.

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1 point
*
Deleted by creator
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2 points

You replied to the wrong person

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1 point

Damn, thanks, moved it.

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23 points

Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say.

this doesn’t make them right, and in fact often leads them to use easily debunked but rhetorically impressive arguments. that’s called sophistry.

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0 points

I disagree. The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans. Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position and often don’t have a good justification for why they’re not vegan. When they are pushed they fall apart instantly.

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2 points

The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans.

it’s true that vegans often think far more about the moral arguments around veganism. i, however, find the arguments to be unconvincing, and often sophistic.

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5 points

Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position

most of the time, maybe. but ex-vegans certainly do, among others.

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-6 points

The rhetorically impressive and easily debunked argument:

A) Slavery of sentient beings is wrong
B) Animals are sentient
∴ Enslaving animals is wrong

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8 points

animal agriculture isn’t slavery. i don’t believe even vegans believe this syllogism rings true. if they did, we’d have a lot more harriet tubmans and a lot fewer tash petersons.

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9 points

i used a plural. it’s not just one argument. you’re not being very honest about the breadth of the arguments made.

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3 points

They also have the easier side to argue.

no, they don’t

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4 points

Ok what’s the moral justification for eating meat?

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5 points

i don’t need one. there is no reason for me to believe it’s immoral. it’s probably amoral.

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0 points

I think it is funny to make this an ethics discussion when there is plenty of evidence that bacon and sausage cause digestive tract cancers. Meat is also pretty expensive unless heavily subsidized.

I think the main focus should be on educating people that a healthy diet contains a very small amount of meat even though the meat industry has managed to make people think it should be in every meal.

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14 points
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Most people are not prepared for interested in a conversation on veganism.

Vegans have been refining these arguments preaching at people who didn’t ask for a decade now

and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you as a gleefully evil animal abuser no matter what you have to say.

They also have the easier side to argue.

That part is arguably true. Which is all the more reason for evangelical vegans NOT to have to behave like they’re missionaries educating savages every time they manage to trick a non-vegan into engaging with them.

Dietary choices, religions, and dietary choices treated as if they were a religion are like penises: it’s fine that you have them and it’s super that you enjoy them, but you are not allowed to try to force them on me without my consent.

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15 points

I follow a plant based diet and agree with just about everything you wrote. I find that hardcore vegans can act like religious zealots yelling at little nine year old girls on the street for wearing a rainbow colored t-shirt.

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-5 points

Your freedom ends, where the freedom of others begins. Why would that not include animals?

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8 points

Why would that not include animals?

three separate reasons.

they aren’t people. the don’t participate in our society. tehy don’t respect the freedoms of others.

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-6 points

It’s meateaters who want to debate me all the time

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4 points

Absolutely a lie lol

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2 points

Even flat-earthers have refined their arguments over the years, which doesn’t make them any less stupid. I have zero moral problems with my meat consumption and I’ll debate it with anyone.

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6 points

Flat earth is not at all comparable to Veganism. Vegans don’t need to make up anything to justify their side. They simply care for animals and therefore they don’t eat them.

I’m not vegan so I’m not taking you up on that debate.

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1 point
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Yup, vegans have science and studies to back up their claims while some meateaters have tradition and false equivalences to back up theirs.

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10 points

Yeah. I do agree with vegans in that humans should transition to a diet that’s more sustainable and removes the animal suffering from the equation - and I do put in some effort to reduce my use of animal based products but: god damnit some people of that community are some seriously insufferable people to converse with

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1 point
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Exactly. There are ethical, environmental and health reasons to decrease humanity’s meat consumption. But screaming slurs with religous zealousy burning in your eyes will not win over the majority of the population. If you push people, they push back. Especially on morals, which is the least efficient argument to have a plant based diet - yet it’s the one some vegans like to push the most, as it makes them feel better about themselves.

I know exactly what vegans know, about eg. dairy industry and the rape of cows. Seen many sickening documentaries, and I believe that in a 100 years we will look back on exploiting/killing animals for dairy/meat as we do now on slavery.

Still, I eat meat.

Much less meat than I did years ago, but I have no intention to fully stop, as the alternatives are not yet practical, affordable, or tasty enough for me. If a lot of people decreased their meat consumption, our planet would be much better - how about we take that first step together, instead of insulting each other?

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7 points

I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism.

I think it is good that they prefer to not have to argue about the validity of their choices, so stay in their own communities. going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary). but when they are in other communities they should be respectful of others choices, not sandbag them with sophistry.

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-6 points

going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary).

Are we singling out c/vegan as snowflakes, or are we planning on making being a shithead in communities a banable offence?

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11 points

going into a community and being a shithead should be a temporary instance-wide ban, yea. don’t go into c/DBZ and say “funimation sucks. dbz sucks. dragonball sucks. you are a bunch of dumb babies”.

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4 points
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No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists. No one cares what you eat. You want to eat brown slop and claim its the best thing ever fill your boots. You want a vegan pet, get a rabbit. Just don’t try to shame everyone else into doing what you want and don’t feed a carnivore a vegan diet and no one will say anything.

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-1 points

There are so many dishes you can make with plants and yet you choose the term “slop”

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2 points

I’ve seen some of the pictures that have been posted in c/vegan. Some of them were literally brown slop. My family eats a number of vegetarian and vegan dishes along with those that contain meat. I don’t care what anyone wants to eat, even if it is brown slop.

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1 point

Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say

Lol they fuck they can, they couldn’t even properly present and defend their own sources.

https://lemm.ee/comment/14432604

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74 points

I mean, leaving .world is a pretty fair response. That community is full of insufferable idiots, but an admin overrode their moderating decisions, and then the admin team made up rules to retroactively justify their decision. That’s pretty egregious.

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64 points

I’m no fan of Lemmy.world but I’m even less of a fan of dead cats.

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48 points

Yeah, to be clear, you should not feed your cat a Vegan diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. Synthetic Taurine has made vegan catfood somewhat more viable, but cats don’t just need Taurine from prey. They need several vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids from animal protein to survive. Beyond that, their digestive tract isn’t very efficient at digesting plant matter, so even if these foods have the nutritional value they need, they might not be absorbing it. Also, a lot of these products seem to be made from grains and other carb heavy products, and cats need a very low carb, high protein diet. If you want to completely divest from the meat industry, you simply shouldn’t own a cat.

That being said, Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies. You can claim that they’re unsafe (I certainly do), but having an admin nuke a comment section for claiming otherwise is a huge overreaction. It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking; it probably isn’t, but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that.

Finally, I’m also not a fan of dead cats, but if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway.

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17 points

Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies

Yeah, that’s not how it works. Especially in countries with extreme regulatory capture like the US.

Unless a product has text that says in a very specifically worded way that it’s been tested and approved by a relevant regulatory body, it hasn’t.

The fact that something hasn’t been taken off the market YET does not necessarily mean that it’s been approved. Especially not when you’re dealing with politically volatile stuff that could lead to lengthy public lawsuits sapping the resources of the already chronically underfunded and understaffed agencies.

If it’s vegan food for obligate carnivores, it MIGHT technically be “safe” (as in won’t be outright lethal), but for the reasons you yourself mentioned, it’s likely to significantly decrease the animal’s enjoyment of life at best and more likely to be downright torturous.

It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking

Except for the fact that those accounts would be absolutely right and have reams of scientific evidence from the world’s foremost experts in related fields to back up their claims. Unlike the people abusing cats in the name of not abusing animals.

it probably isn’t

It is. It’s not even anywhere near the next city over from the neighborhood of close.

but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that

Except limiting the spread of dangerous misinformation, such as common myths that are keeping smokers away from one of if not THE most effective smoking cessation tool, is a big part of what admins are FOR.

if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway

Yeah…that’s not a valid argument either. A lot of vegans avoid getting a cat because they’re too overzealous in their veganism to even want carnivorous animals to eat meat.

The Venn diagram of people vegan enough to love carnivores but refuse to give them meat and people who would trust a vegan online echo chamber more than competent veterinarians is a circle within a bigger circle.

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6 points

I feel like nobody is approaching this from a consent aspect either. If someone offers their cat an array of cat food options and makes an actual honest attempt to determine a long term preference and the cat legitimately prefers the vegan cat food, then that’s way less problematic than saying “you will eat this weird food or you will starve.”

The forced veganism thing just feels a lot like saying “studies show that a human can technically survive on roaches and rat feces as long as they get a vitamin C supplement.”

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3 points

I just wanted to add: the reason why most carnivores go for the digestive tract first when eating their prey is that they eat the predigested plant matter with the entrails, making those nutrients much more readily available to them.

It’s a shame; i’m sure there are vegans feeding their cats this way, and when those animals lose muscle mass quickly, the first thing that gets really damaged by that are their kidneys - and this does normally only get noticed shortly before the cat is going to die. And it’s an ugly death. I’ve had a young cat which had nearly dead kidneys when we got her, and it’s pure torture for them - we tried everything we could, but there’s not much to be done after they show symptoms. That one “study” that other poster is throwing around with the owner-reported feedback regarding the health of their cats has actual negative worth.

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1 point

What if we raise them in a factory farm and eat them instead? Don’t worry though. We will force feed them a carnivore diet in their tiny cages

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10 points

Bruh. This is why I don’t like folks from vegan communities. So full of misinformation and vitriol regarding farming practices. Dead, malnourished and diseased cattle are worthless to a farmer, so they intentionally don’t keep them in conditions like these crazies describe.

That said I am trying to cut down on my meat consumption because meat production is more climate intensive than vegetables, and my diet is not as vegetable-heavy as it should be. But you folks make it so hard to feel good about making positive changes like that

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10 points

I agree entirely. Let’s end the factory farming of cats.

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1 point

What is your intent when replying like this? Did you intend to have a conversation and a sharing of views? Is it just about mocking the hypocrisy what you assume my views to be?

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12 points
*

If thats true then everyone should probably start leaving .world. If they cant even behave themselves with something as simple as veganism, then you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

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-22 points

you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

I mean they “preemptively defederated hexbear as a last resort” for fear they might discuss politics, so that ship has sailed.

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7 points

Shush tankie.

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16 points

Maybe, but this seems like a problem that’s bigger than a single instance. A few months back someone came with some pretty good receipts showing .ml admins going after people for having some very fair and moderate criticisms of China. Seems like most instances either have power tripping mods or are too small to have much activity.

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13 points

The issues with dot ml and dot world are hardly comparable. I’ve had my concerns with some of the world admin actions (flip-flopping, lack of communication) but I do believe they are trying in good faith. I’m still happy to be registered and to make my communities elsewhere but for now I don’t see them as being nearly as egregious as ml.

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3 points
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  1. Adding animal abuse to their TOS was a good move. I’m surprised it wasn’t already there.
  2. Encouraging people to feed a cat a vegan diet is a call to abuse a cat through deliberate malnourishment.
  3. Mods on c/vegan were directly calling for animal abuse, and censoring anyone countering them.

I stand with the admins on this. Zero sympathy for animal abusers.

leaving .world is a pretty fair response

Okay, .world account…

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5 points
  1. Agreed, except when it’s being done to retroactively justify your actions.
  2. I think it’s a very bad idea to feed a cat a Vegan diet, but there are vegan products being sold on the market, and if you want to feed your cat one of these products, you should discuss them with a vet or other qualified professional. Regular dry food contains way more carbohydrates than cats are meant to have in their diet, which can lead to obesity and diabetes in cats. Are people who feed their cats dry food animal abusers? Should the Lemmy admins start policing the use of dry food?
  3. The mods of c/vegan were trying to assert their ability to moderate their own sub as they saw fit in the face of a massive overreach from the admin. I think they’re the most insufferable community I’ve seen on this instance, but they should have the right to moderate their own community.

And yes, I’m on .world, but very little of my identity is tired up in my lemmy instance, and I’m certainly not going to bat for the .world admins when they do something crazy.

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0 points

And yes, I’m on .world, but very little of my identity is tired up in my lemmy instance, and I’m certainly not going to bat for the .world admins when they do something crazy.

Just please make an alt account if you intend on cresting any communities.

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-4 points
3 points

So you are cool if we just feed prisoners vitamin fortified gruel since they can technically survive on it?

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Lemmy Shitpost

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