So, I don’t trust them to have actually done what I’m going to describe, (and honestly I’ve just accepted that even with everything off, they’re still giving me ads based on stuff I’ve only talked about and never clicked or written anything), but:
The programs that recognize specific phrases(Ok Google), are always separate from normal voice recognition (and much much lighter in terms of processing). So, if they weren’t Google, they might have left the “Ok Google” recognition on, but not process anything else that the mic receives.
They’re probably still listening in though.
Not necessarily you or your case, but I’m still convinced that a lot of people just have confirmation bias (only noticing it when it happens and discounting the thousands of otherwise innocent ads). There’s also subconscious ad effects, like you were only talking about it to begin with because your saw it somewhere because it’s been spreading by weird of mouth from people who initially saw an ad
It’s not just that either. Google knows who your family is. They know who lives with you because of location data. So any time those people search for anything regardless of whether they’re on your home network, they likely serve ads to whole families at a time when one person searches for something.
Doesn’t really explain why I was receiving cat litter ads after only speaking with my husband offhand about maybe getting a cat. We didn’t already have a cat, so hadn’t had any reason to look up any cat care goods ever, and I had never searched for anything even remotely cat-related up to that point. But wouldn’t you know it, about 45 minutes later, I was getting kitty litter ads. Very spooky.
Sorry but I want the true story to be that your husband immediately went off and started googling to find a cat to surprise you for Christmas thus you got cat ads (same network like someone else said).
That’s the gist of how it likely works; the wake word is detected by an “always on” audio DSP, but a software mode prevents the passing of microphone data back up to the SoC. I’m actually quite familiar with Amazon Echo engineering design, and they implement the “mute” feature in a manner that takes privacy seriously: the LED indicator on that button is hardwired to only turn on when the microphone is literally powered off. Thus, an Echo device can’t even manage such a cheeky response, nor can a software bug or hack enable listening while the mute button is lit.
What you describe is actually how it works. If they actually sent all you say to their servers, it would be trivial to detect with a network analyser.
And if they were found to be sending it all the time, holy fuck the fines would end the company.
Why listen and risk even a slap on the wrist?
As Pole’s computers crawled through the data, he was able to identify about 25 products that, when analyzed together, allowed him to assign each shopper a “pregnancy prediction” score. More important, he could also estimate her due date to within a small window, so Target could send coupons timed to very specific stages of her pregnancy.
One Target employee I spoke to provided a hypothetical example. Take a fictional Target shopper named Jenny Ward, who is 23, lives in Atlanta and in March bought cocoa-butter lotion, a purse large enough to double as a diaper bag, zinc and magnesium supplements and a bright blue rug. There’s, say, an 87 percent chance that she’s pregnant and that her delivery date is sometime in late August.
Didn’t they just pass a law to make all that illegal spying legal, like that changes anything? Seems obvious if your phone is listening in a device like this will be used no matter what setting you use. I remember Amazon being caught leaving their mics on and also Facebook sending conversations to 3rd parties for transcribing. And this is just a small fraction of the shit we know about.
The amount of amazon > google grift in the comments as if they’re not both spying on you is so cute :)
Source: I work at Amazon, and have worked on Alexa
They don’t spy on you without your permission. Comments like these devalue actual instances where companies genuinely steal and manipulate data. Take the tin foil hat off…
Source: I work at Amazon, and have worked on Alexa
If you’re high enough level at Amazon to know for sure, you’re also high enough level at Amazon to almost definitely lie to people about it and other things as part of your job.
So no, we will not be taking your word for it.
That doesn’t make any sense. If I were “higher up”, do you think I would be actually doing any IC work? I’d be in management, and probably won’t even know where to look at any of the fucking source code.
Feel free not to take my word for it, but also feel free to ask anyone that has any experience with Alexa, or anyone that has monitored traffic leaving the device.
Is Lemmy just full of conspiracy nuts or something?
They don’t spy on you without your permission.
You should probably edit your comment to clarify that they don’t listen to you.
“Spying” doesn’t really have a clear definition in this context. Amazon employees have been caught spying on customers through their cameras, and giving away clips to authorities without “owners’” consent, consult or notification.
True, that is more accurate. IMO, in those instances, Amazon get all the shit that they deserve…although for many instances these are in their terms of service. There has been no shortage of scandals where Amazon have used utterance data for training ML models, or where they’ve retained voice data for the same reasons, when these have been in the TOS from the beginning.
If you had any remote idea about the tech industry, you’d know what kind of reputation Amazon has. If Amazon were stealing data, you can bet your ass that one of its employees (probably one of the ~6% that gets fired every year) would happily rat them out.
Comments like these amaze me. Even cesspools like Reddit and Twitter wouldn’t be so out of touch and stupid.
personally I think its better to be afraid of real things that are happening than things made up by Facebook boomers.
why this particular issue fools even the most technical of people I’ll never know.
What made up by Facebook boomers, that devices can be used to listen and collect data on users?
obviously what you vaguely describe has been around since 1945.
That home assistant devices are constantly listening and feeding back marketing data on every conversation is patent and disproven nonsense.
they have done packet sniffing investigations, they have disassembled the devices, they have run meters on the electrical charges… everything in every way you can imagine.
But even if you just think about it for a second - processing a live audio feed at a rate of 1 second per second indefinitely and correlating that data via voice recognition to your Google profile all to… make your ad personalizations… worse? more inaccurate?
like what the hell is the perceived benefit? That my wife says, “oh my dad found my old barbie house!” while at my neighbors house and my neighbor gets served barbie ads? Why would Google want that?
At some point ever you’re going to realize is that the real things you need to be afraid of are largely caused by the stuff made up by Facebook boomers.
what specifically? vaccines cause autism/monkeypox, the democrats drink baby blood, trump won the last/next election, Putin is good because he’s only killing Nazis in Ukraine, forest fires are caused by Jewish space lasers, LGBTQ+ folks are grooming children and Bill Gates wants to put microchips in your brain?
Like — what are you saying, some misinformation is good?
This is why we don’t have such devices
It doesn’t run anything from google. I run lineage os.
You could make the point that the service companies know where you ate all the time but that doesn’t have anything to do with audio that I know of.
I run lineage os
Good for you, never mind then. However, most people run preinstalled OS, so I just assumed you also would.
I thought lineage os still uses google for stuff like push notifications? It just doesn’t use the “Google apps” by default
When I turn my phone’s microphone off and say “hey Google” my phone doesn’t respond in the slightest. Much more comforting.
If you really think your phone not responding means your phone is not listening …
Voice assistants are money losing products. If they can do something like processing the wakewords on the device before chosing to send to a server they will. These companies are far too stingy to continuously stream audio to their servers
Back in the day when everything had to be processed server-side sure.
Now we have purpose-built hardware helping work this shit out. The devices are basically capable of handling native language resolution locally. They’re no longer need to farm the data out. I still don’t think they’re doing this we would see it in the open source operating systems, but if they wanted to any late model cell phone would be absolutely fine parsing out your interests from your conversations. Hell, I’m sure the contents of this dictation I’m making now are being reduced and added to my social graph at Google.
I think this should be fairly easy to test yourself. Just disconnect from the WAN, say the wake word, and see if the device responds.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but home assistant is currently struggling with this and is processing everything on your local box because it can’t do wakewords on the device.
I think they’re choosing to do it that way. Raspberry pi’s easily have that capability to do the wake word recognition on device (i think they are also working on that). Esp’s on the other hand, can only stream audio to the server and not much more. Since esp’s are far cheaper than installing a raspberry in each room, they are focusing to do wake word detection on the server not on device.
Exactly. If it is practical and money can be made doing it, then continuous, ambient sound parsing will be the norm. Currently it seems like it’s not a valuable business. When it is valuable to them, they will add a checkbox somewhere in your account to disable it, and most people will not be bothered enough to look for it.
Sound’s like it’s just not sending the data back to Daddy Google. The OK Google/Alexa bit is done on a custom chip on the device. Clearly that bit isn’t being turned off, but anything after that isn’t being sent anywhere.
Probably just saves support calls this way from idiots who turn it off and forget.
