All I’m saying is according to English grammatical rules it’s a perfectly valid method of referring to a singular person when gender is unknown.
Now according to societal politeness rules on the other hand, it’s rude as fuck.
I would say that, given that it’s never ok, it is part of English grammartical rules. In German they actually use two different words for when a human eats or when an animal eats, it’s not unprecedented and there’s no need to lend any credibility to the usage of the word “it”.
There is a single precedent I can think of, which is that with some regularity I see infants/newborns referred to as “it”.
A mindset from the before (antibiotics) times. Babies used to die quite frequently. So much that in some cultures babies weren’t named until later in their life, not during pregnancy as it’s custom today. So they were kind of an out there thing, that wasn’t baptized and named yet, they were an it. They were “the baby”. No different than a dog or a turtle, they might die without a name, given an unmarked burial. And off to the next pregnancy. Still a tragedy, and people did mourn and suffered the loss. But not to the same degree of modern, western medicalized, pregnancies were almost every single baby born is expected to at least survive to infancy.
according to English grammatical rules it’s a perfectly valid method of referring to a singular person
show me ONE fucking example prior to 2000 of people using “it” for persons without it being dehumanizing
singular “they” has fulfilled this function for at least 500 years. “it” has never been a pronoun for humans, until it recently saw use as a neo-pronoun.
there is no grammar rulebook. grammar is usage. you are claiming that it’s been used like that. you’re wrong.
You’re more than welcome to go back in time and inform my 10th grade teacher of this. Lemme know how that works out for you.
oh shit nvm didn’t realize your tenth grade English teacher said otherwise mb
I default to whatever the traditional apparent gender would be assumed I.E. you look like traditional woman/man I refer to you as such. Then I allow myself to be corrected if it’s inaccurate.
The intent isn’t offensive and I’m not going to ask each individual what pronouns are preferred but will respect whatever I’m informed is correct in each instance. I think it’s being made into a mountain when it’s really just a mole hill. You can’t expect every human to automatically be correct or informed or even default to a neutral when it is not yet the norm.
It seems too trivial to be butthurt over if it isn’t malicious, especially upon first interaction. Let the person know, then if ignored or dismissed it can be considered offensive.
I don’t get upset when people call my Bugles potato chips, they are little crunchy cones of heaven
I started using they after 2 years accidentally misgendering a colleague from another country because it looked like she had a beard in Teams profile picture
That sounds reallllly rough haha, hopefully it was taken with more humor than insult. I just go with ye ol “assume ignorance or mistake over malice” anytime an interaction like that happens. Majoritively it is one of the former and there was never an issue to begin with. Sorta like getting some fused Bugles, I doubt the company intended to send it to me, just a simple double delicious mistake
Yeah as a pretty genderfucky person, people pretty commonly misgender me, and most of the time it’s no big deal. It gets pretty easy to tell when it’s intentional and when it isn’t. As long as people are empathetic and doing their best, it’s never a problem personally.
That being said, many people outside gender norms have sustained a lot of pain over their identity, oftentimes by using pronouns intentionally to out us or otherwise belittle us. The brain maladapts, especially in more serious cases of abuse, and the limbic system takes over to keep us safe - a distinctive characteristic of PTSD. It’s taken a long time (still ongoing) for me to heal from that, and lots of queer folks are still too close to active abuse to even begin the process. Any grace that one can lend people in these moments can be monumental in their healing process.
(editing to say: lmao love me some bugles too)
I understand not wanting to ask everyone all the time, but defaulting to a neutral pronoun isn’t going to become the norm unless people start using it even when it isn’t the norm. That said, it does feel a lot less natural in Ukrainian and Russian to me, so I’m still trying to figure out the best option there. But in English, singular “they” is pretty widespread already, I think.
I don’t think singular “they” is that common except among very young people, and does lead to confusion.
As an example, my brother once showed me a picture of a person on a dating app and said “they are nice” and I thought he was talking about the person’s breasts…
Also, “it” is dehumanising, I’d feel uncomfortable calling someone “it” even if they told me it was their preferred pronoun.
Singular they has existed in English before the times of Shakespeare. It’s not a fad. It’s a bloody grammatical reality.
That’s what I do Im autistic and struggle with names already and tbh folks that have pronouns that differ from what they look like just fry my brain as that’s another bit of Data I have to remember especially when there are multiple people like that
Y’all.
I just call everyone dude.
“Hey, dude.”
“Wassup, dude?”
“My dudes!”
“Dude’s crazy!”
Can’t help people who take offence when none is given. People need to stop taking what isn’t theirs.
People need to stop taking what isn’t theirs.
I’m going to be referring to people taking offense to things like that or being offended for another group of people as “stealing offense” now.
Those people should stay in their homes and off the internet, so no one has to see them or speak to them.
This is how the neutral gender in latin, got absorbed into the male gender in most romance languages.
Doesnt German have a gender neutral form just in case you can’t remember what imaginary sex organs “Pizza” has?
I’m 100% down for normalizing ‘it’
