At-will state fantasies
Exactly this. If you don’t want me to quit without notice, do you also vote against politicians who vote for “right-to-work” legislation?
Yeah, you don’t get to write a fucking law that says you can fire me on the spot for any reason at all and then insist that I give you two weeks.
Besides, these days it’s a different world - there’s a labor shortage. A serious one. Warm body? You’re hired. Nobody gives a fuck. They can’t afford to. Especially in minimum wage.
Unless you’re in IT, apparently? Idk.
Relatedly, my conspiracy theory is that the spate of recent layoffs are coordinated pushback against all the strikes and unionizing as well as pushback against RTO etc. Just a wild idea I had… May be total horseshit, idk.
On the other hand, we have seen collusion in the past within some sectors (e.g., price fixing, no poach agreements, wage fixing), and antitrust violations often go unpunished or weakly penalized, corporate leadership is strongly driven by profit often to the exclusion of ethics and at the expense of all else. And employee compensation is a significant part of most company budgets. So, I think my wild idea is at least somewhat plausible.
Unless you’re in IT, apparently? Idk
As someone from IT, there isn’t really a shortage. There are literal crowds of quite advanced developers searching for jobs. The only problem is that they don’t have commercial experience and all companies only want seniors/teamleads/cto’s with 10+ years of experience, to do at best middle-level developer’s jobs. The shortage is artificial, but, I’m not complaining, as it’s the only reason I get paid decent wage.
It’s my fault. I finally got so fed up with blue collar stuff that I decided to start getting into the tech field, then pretty much immediately it all collapsed. Sorry for trying lol
I think the layoffs in IT are directly related to AI. I’m in IT and I have been for decades. With AI I can easily say my output has quadrupled. Maybe even more. But when everybody in your workforce can do the work of five people, you can wake up one day and realize your company is overwhelmed with redundancy.
This isn’t going to remain limited to just IT and no, it’s not just like the Industrial Revolution.
IT as a whole isn’t having a problem, just the developer segment of IT is getting canned because 7/10 people who went into “IT” in the past 20 years got pulled into development work and now there’s too many. IT is a huge sector, development is just a part of it, a part everyone went into because Silicon Valley was paying a ton of $ but not guaranteed stability
While I doubt this actually happened, I’m still disturbed by everyone cheering it on absent any context that would make OP not look like a petulant child.
Quitting without notice doesn’t require justification, fuck the bosses, whatever.
But for all we know, this manager had bent over backwards to stand up for their employees, or cover for them. Maybe this employee took advantage of that and was miserable to his coworkers. Those are just as likely as anything else, given that no further information was provided.
At least invent a backstory how this manager was dogshit or abusive, or the company was awful. Make us want to believe that you’re not just someone with a persecution complex who’s quick to anger and lash out.
The manager is an agent of the company, the default assumption is that they have the company’s interests ahead of the workers.
Individually, your experience may vary.
It is sad this is the defacto situation now, but it shouldn’t be that way. Managers should be there in interest of employees, to keep them on board, happy, and able to do their job efficiently… The company can’t run without workers. Too many companies have forgotten that. A manager should be a buffer between the employees and the “corporate machine” (or better yet get rid of the corporate machine, but ya know…).
Maybe MY experience is limited, but what manager these days isn’t pulling double duty? They do 3/4 of the job time with duties no different than the people under them, and also have to do all the managing part when possible. This is how it’s been in the public service, retail, and customer service jobs I’ve worked.
I’d be more inclined to see your point, except that the manager in question said “each job requires 2 weeks notice” like he was indignant that he didn’t get something he deserved.
That’s not only not true at all, it’s active manipulation on their part in a hail Mary attempt to have their work covered for enough time to look for another employee.
It may be unprofessional to quit without notice, but it’s really unprofessional to present the act of quitting as requiring 2 weeks’ notice, particularly in a place that might also allow the employer to fire someone for any reason at any time with no notice.
it’s really unprofessional to present the act of quitting as requiring 2 weeks’ notice
If it’s part of the contract then it’s not unprofessional at all to bring up the terms that you’ve agreed on. My job requires a month’s notice and it wouldn’t be unprofessional for my employer to bring that up if I tried to quit on the spot.
That being said, I don’t live in a place with “at-will employment”, which is a fucking travesty and should never have been allowed in the first place.
I’m not from the US but I always assumed “at-will employment” works both ways. You’re telling me it doesn’t?
Pointing out the lack of context and the tantrum like behavior isn’t nuance. The fact that you think otherwise makes me concerned for your ability to safely cross the street.
If you see this and your immediate reaction is to chastise some hypothetical tantrum then you might just be a bootlicker. At least own up to it instead of deflecting with arrogant ableism
Tantrum behavior like doing mass layoffs in response to a labor strike, a la UPS?
Of course. When workers stand up for their rational self interest, it’s a tantrum. When bosses retaliate en masse against workers standing up for their rational self interest, that’s just business 101.
It’s not licking boots to acknowledge that managers are people.
Every evil organization in history has had good people working for it. You hating them is yet another way the “above” people divide the “lower” people.
That being said, absolutely assume the manager is on the side of the company. This is a meme, we can’t even prove if this shit is real. Fuck the company.
I’m curious about the relationship to managers in different industries. Fast food compared to programming. Warehouse/stacking managers have always treated the workers like idiots where I’ve been at. IT support depended on the company. Mail sorting was pretty chill as long as the work got done.
- It’s a meme, all that backstory wouldn’t fit
- You’re saying it’s silly to assume/make up the backstory of the employee, yet you dedicated a whole paragraph making up a backstory for the boss
- It’s a meme my guy, in a community titled Lefty Memes, what do you expect?
Hey, fuck you… just kidding.
TBH I just clicked on this when scrolling All and didn’t even notice what community it was until well into my comment taking off with replies.
The conversation evolved, and devolved, from there. Not much to do about it now.
If you doubt this actually happened clearly you’ve never worked in customer service/ food service
I’ve spent my life in customer service/retail sales/food service and I doubt this actually happened.
All 2 years of it I see, my man you gotta open your eyes then. The amount of pettiness in that industry is insane. Your ignorance of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
How many Lemmy users do you think have never worked retail customer facing jobs, or food service? I’m betting it’s a minority, but I could be wrong.
Either way, whatever internal compass you use to determine another user’s job history needs some tuning because I’ve worked in plenty of service industry jobs.
Y’all are pretty tech savvy around here. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that the majority of Lemmy users skipped the retail/CS/hospitality jobs in favor of entry level IT/ tech jobs.
I’m guessing this has more to do with the US, than the particular profession.
I’m so used to workers rights, that getting a glimpse into how things are over there feels dystopian. Laws everyone would want, and benefitting everyone, except perhaps exploitative businesses, are “controversial”.
It’s very difficult to even fire someone here, and even if you did, 3 months to find something else is the norm. More often than not, you’d also be paid without doing much work during that time. If you resign, the company also has 3 months to figure something out.
Why… Would you not want that kind of predictability be the norm? It’s not a net benefit to be able to resign or be fired on the spot. The only way that makes any sense is to just focus on one of the sides, at the convenient time. Bleh.
why would you not want that kind of predictability to be the norm?
You say this like this is most people’s choice
Tell me your dad left you his RV dealership and you never had a job before that without telling me
Amazing. You’re really something special. Have you tried staring at goats?
I’d say the reply from the boss is enough to justify that response. The boss is chiding him for not putting in a 2 weeks notice, calling him unprofessional. From this one interaction you can make a pretty good assumption as to the quality of the boss. The only proper response to someone quitting is either a counter offer or a farewell, not a guilt trip.
Not really… It is unprofessional. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong, just that it’s not always unreasonable for a manager to point that out. Again, we lack any other context for the situation.
I would add, that he also followed it up with a good luck and didn’t drag it out. So, based off what limited evidence we have available, he seems like the more reasonable person in this situation.
Have you never had a good manager and a bad coworker?
Not really… It is unprofessional.
When companies firing people for base reasons, i.e. reaching quarterly targets, is also universally seen as unprofessional and shunned as such, we can talk again. Until then, they deserve exactly as much courtesy as they are willing to give.
It is unprofessional though. And that boss was not really being a dick.
Now this person has to go call the staff to find someone to fill shifts last minute, which everyone hates.
Unless your relationship with your boss is absolutely awful, it’s not hard to give notice.
The “you’re lucky you even got a text” really looks like the employee is toxic.
A good rule of thumb is to never, ever burn bridges with past managers. Keep your dignity and remain professional. You never know when you’ll need them as a reference.
Fuckin managers will fire you with 0 notice, but that’s life and “at will employment”. You fire the business and you have to give 2 weeks because business run “lean” and “at will” is only supposed to be used by the business.
Well, there’s risk and reward in business, and more risk in running lean. Managers can always structure their departments to not be impacted by an inopportune departure. After all, people can get hit by a bus leaving their house in the morning.
Hell, if an employee is that critical, maybe they should be put under an employment contract with set terms and compensation agreement. You know, like most directors have.
But we all know these things will never happen.
Dunno why you’re getting blasted, you’re right. What good is chastising the employee at that stage going to do if it isn’t meant as a guilt trip? Does anyone really think the manager had his best interest in mind and is trying to look out for his future? Or is it more likely he is trying to keep shifts covered for 2 more weeks so productivity doesn’t completely tank? I’d be completely okay with a simple “ok” or thumbs up emoji compared to a lecture.
Pretty much this. The manager, from one text, comes across as a holier than thou, “think of your coworkers!! We’re family!!” Kind of person. One text can reveal that much. The “good luck” doesn’t come across as sincere, since it follows that whining. Dude wants shifts covered for 2 weeks, he can hire someone else, do it himself , or fix whatever problems (probably money) made the person leave in the first place. Or they’re a middle manager and get off on being overly focused on the “rules”. Or he’s just a low end shift manager, in which case why lick the boot that hard my dude?
I feel like this is absolutely an appropriate response. A really shitty boss would sue or fire them for cause. Chiding them is pretty dang tame.
You can’t (successfully) sue someone for quitting and you can’t fire them when they have already quit.
They deserve exactly the same notice they give when they axe thousands of jobs, Zero. Fuck the bosses.
Well, laws can change that. So instead of fucking bosses, fuck workers protection laws.
If they’ll fire us with no notice, we should quit with no notice.
The only reason to give notice is if there are benefits to giving notice, like having banked PTO paid out or something (if you’re in a state where it’s not required to be paid out). Otherwise, absolutely call the morning of and let them know you quit.
That may not be the best advice. Depends on your industry, but burning a bridge so quickly may hurt you in the future. I’ve had former coworkers and other managers help me get my foot in the door for another job.
Besides, there’s something cathartic about knowing the end is right there and still getting paid for it.
Depending on the job, that can be pretty fucked up for the people you work with. Your co-workers often deserve some consideration too. If you’re doing something that doesn’t require knowledge transfer, then whatever, but if you have specific and complex knowledge of systems that you need to transfer to other people who will be responsible for maintaining them in your absence, it’s pretty messed up to just dump that shit in their lap.
Your co-workers often deserve some consideration too.
If they don’t like it, they should unionize.
Unionization doesn’t magically allow everyone to know everything about what happens at your place of work.
Sounds like management’s problem if they didn’t require you to document your job for the next person.
No notice for 20,000 layoffs? Oops, 2 weeks from… uh, 2 weeks ago.
The key is to dip after changing the password on the vital database they decided one person was enough to manage ;)
In the US there is no notice period for firing in “at-will” states (which is all except Montana). It goes both directions though, there is no notice period when quitting. So chances are, if the OP is in the US, the boss was full of it.
Depends on the country. Here in the Netherlands you usually have a 1 month notice period. This is the default, you can put a different notice period in the employment contract but it’s not common. Regardless, the notice period for the employer is always double that of the employee.
It can be unprofessional without being illegal.
2 weeks notice is a pretty much universal standard when quitting. Layoffs usually gives with severance pay, so unless you pay severance to the employer when quitting, giving a courtesy of possible doesn’t seem like a lot to ask.
But severance pay is almost always part of consideration in a “you can’t sue us” contract. So the company is not just giving you pay in lieu of notice, they’re buying your rights away.
I’ve also seen plenty of corporations that punish you when you give two weeks notice by immediately barring you from working and you end up losing two weeks pay by planning on being considerate.
Layoffs for in-demand careers might offer severance pay, but most layoffs offer nothing other than a heart felt “fuck you”.
While this is very funny folks just be aware you can be sued for sabotage
The key is to dip after changing the password on the vital database they decided one person was enough to manage ;)
Pretty sure this kind of sabotage can expose one to legal consequences
